Gen 12:3

[NiteShift]

The mission of the nation Israel in God’s purpose of redemption was accomplished with the birth and death of Jesus Christ.

The promise to Abraham was that, "in you will all the nations on the earth be blessed" (Gen. 12:3). It is through the Jews that the world knows of Jehovah. Our savior is a Jew. After having promised Israel that “I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession", do all of God's promises now become the sole property of Gentile Christians?


No, we have been "grafted in" (Rom. 11:17). We are now "partakers" of the promises (Rom 15:27), not replacements.

 

[kyredneck]

......do all of God's promises now become the sole property of Gentile Christians?.....

The promises belong to the Church of Christ:

“Now to Abraham were the promises spoken, and to his seed. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ..... And if ye are Christ`s, then are ye Abraham`s seed, heirs according to promise” [Gal 3:16,29]

13 For not through the law was the promise to Abraham or to his seed that he should be heir of the world, but through the righteousness of faith.
14 For if they that are of the law are heirs, faith is made void, and the promise is made of none effect:
15 for the law worketh wrath; but where there is no law, neither is there transgression. Ro 4

 

[NiteShift]

The promises belong to the Church of Christ

Romans 15:27 - "It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things."

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What do you make of this passage redneck? -

"Though you were ruined and made desolate and your land laid waste, now you will be too small for your people, and those who devoured you will be far away. The children born during your bereavement will yet say in your hearing, 'This place is too small for us; give us more space to live in.' Then you will say in your heart, 'Who bore me these? I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected. Who brought these up? I was left all alone, but these--where have they come from?'" - Isaiah 49


Where did they all come from? I believe this speaks of the redeemed of Israel united with the Gentile saints.

 

[kyredneck]

Romans 15:27 - "It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things.".....

Are you using this passage to somehow justify the absurd notion of the Israel Cult that the wealth and power of America should be harnessed to serve Israel?

*

What do you make of this passage redneck? -

"Though you were ruined and made desolate and your land laid waste, now you will be too small for your people, and those who devoured you will be far away. The children born during your bereavement will yet say in your hearing, 'This place is too small for us; give us more space to live in.' Then you will say in your heart, 'Who bore me these? I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected. Who brought these up? I was left all alone, but these--where have they come from?'" - Isaiah 49


Where did they all come from? I believe this speaks of the redeemed of Israel united with the Gentile saints.

I'm not following your take on this. You'll have to explain a little deeper.

 

[NiteShift]

Are you using this passage to somehow justify the absurd notion of the Israel Cult that the wealth and power of America should be harnessed to serve Israel?

No. And why is it that anyone who disagrees with you is part of a cult?

I'm not following your take on this. You'll have to explain a little deeper.

The passage is speaking of the future restoration of Israel of course. And she asks, "but these--where have they come from?'" Many more than she had imagined would return. Who are they? Where did they all come from?

 

[kyredneck]

Romans 15:27 - "It hath pleased them verily; and their debtors they are. For if the Gentiles have been made partakers of their spiritual things, their duty is also to minister unto them in carnal things."....

Are you using this passage to somehow justify the absurd notion of the Israel Cult that the wealth and power of America should be harnessed to serve Israel?....

No.

So what is the point you're trying to make with this passage? Why did you even post it?

And why is it that anyone who disagrees with you is part of a cult?

That is a false accusation and a deceitful smear tactic on your part. I make mention only of 'The Israel Cult' at times in an attempt to make Christians think, and possibly even become aware of the incredible influence that this tiny foreign country exerts on the federal government of the USA (due largely to the political clout of, and the false teaching of the dispensationalists that physical Israel is God's chosen people) .

Genesis 12:3, the topic of the OP and the poll, would be the 'banner' of the Israel Cult, whose theme in America is for America's wealth and power to be channeled to serve Israel in order to be blessed, and not cursed; and you quote Ro 15:27 to twist it to mean that indeed it is America's 'duty to minister unto them in carnal things'. You know, carnal things, like our children's blood, our nation's incredible massive debt, our children's future economic hopes, all in the service of The Chosen Ones.

Yea, when you make flippant statements on the other forum like “No matter how bogged down the Iraq ground war had become, it would have been easy enough to hit Iran's nuke facilities with a couple of bunker-busters. One or two sorties with an F16 maybe?”, I think I know where your loyalties lie.

Poll results this date, 25 yes, 17 no. The Christian Zionists still dominate.

 

[NiteShift]

Are you using this passage to somehow justify the absurd notion of the Israel Cult that the wealth and power of America should be harnessed to serve Israel?

So what is the point you're trying to make with this passage? Why did you even post it?

I would think it's obvious. Paul was making the point that the Gentile believers were partakers of the blessings promised to Israel, and that it was the duty of Gentiles to minister to the Jewish Christians at Jerusalem in their physical needs.

The idea that America is harnessed to serving Israel is one of your political bugaboos and something you bring up at every opportunity. If you want to make political points about Israeli influence on US policies, maybe you are in the wrong forum.

That is a false accusation and a deceitful smear tactic on your part. I make mention only of 'The Israel Cult' at times in an attempt to make Christians think, and possibly even become aware of the incredible influence that this tiny foreign country exerts on the federal government of the USA (due largely to the political clout of, and the false teaching of the dispensationalists that physical Israel is God's chosen people).

You say those who believe God still has plans for Israel are part of a cult, but complain that I am the one using smear tactics? Please use some sense here. If I wanted to smear you I would say that those, like you, who espouse Replacement Theology are the cultists.

Yea, when you make flippant statements on the other forum like “No matter how bogged down the Iraq ground war had become, it would have been easy enough to hit Iran's nuke facilities with a couple of bunker-busters. One or two sorties with an F16 maybe?”, I think I know where your loyalties lie.

If you read that statement in context you will see that I was demonstrating that if it was Bush's intent to attack Iran, it would have been easy enough. But he didn't and it wasn't. How is that flippant?

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If God is through with Israel, why did Paul say, "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!".


Why did he say, "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."?

 

[Michael Wrenn]

You tell me. I believe the nation of Israel as it exists today is an aberration. It would not even exist today were it not for the deception of dispensationalism/Christian Zionism that has taken hold within the Church, particularly here in the States.

I agree with you.

 

[OldRegular]

The promise to Abraham was that, "in you will all the nations on the earth be blessed" (Gen. 12:3). It is through the Jews that the world knows of Jehovah. Our savior is a Jew. After having promised Israel that “I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an everlasting possession", do all of God's promises now become the sole property of Gentile Christians?


No, we have been "grafted in" (Rom. 11:17). We are now "partakers" of the promises (Rom 15:27), not replacements.

I never said the Church was a replacement. The only people I know who talk about "replacement" are dispensationalists!

 

[OldRegular]

If God is through with Israel, why did Paul say, "I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be!".


Why did he say, "God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew."?

God will save the elect out of ethnic Israel, assuming it exists, just as he saves all His elect.

 

[OldRegular]

I have read this thread with much interest. Although I am not a dispensationalist, I find myself agreeing with Winman.

Then, I read other views, and I say to myself, well that makes sense.

So I guess you could say that my views are evolving.

But having said that, I just don't think the United States would be wise to align itself with Israel's enemies. And if we look closely, we find that many of Israels enemies are, or will be, ours as well

I favor our support of Israel because they are a thorn in the flesh of Islam not for any Biblical reasons.