Genetics~Enviornment~Or Both

[Phillipians121]

I had a discussion with a friend (who isn't a christian) on the subject of what causes someone to be evil. I mentioned that I believe that some people are just destined to be born evil (we fight not against flesh and blood but against principalities of the air) . Just as we as christians are born to be Gods chosen. Some are born with such an evil bent to be serial killers and socialpaths.

She thinks that even if someone has a bent towards evil, if raised in a good loving home they will still turn out good. They had to have something in their childhood to have caused them to turn out bad. I know we all have certain bents towards certain sins and that enviornment plays a huge role in our lives. But just as some who have had horrible lives, and unloving parents, have turned out good (christian or not) can also mean a person who was raised in a good loving home can also trun out bad...she disagrees.

I can't help think of Cain and Able and how they lived in the most perfect enviornment possible.

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

so can I blame all my issues onto God's "destiny machine?"

 

[Phillipians121]

I never said we are not held accountable for our sin. I just said we all have certain bents towards certain sins. I think you are agreeing with me without even noticing it. Read on....

Take someone who is an addict or a sex offender. Facts are that majority of them never are able even after becoming "christians" to change their ways. They may subsitute it for another addiction, yet they still have an adictive personality.
How many people do you know who claim to be a christian yet struggle in the area of addiction? or how about a child molestor (I knew of a few in churches) who still struggled with being attracted to children, even continued to molest them. Better yet ones who still struggled with homosexualty, or were raised in a "good christian" home, yet became gay.

All I am saying is everyone has something they struggle with no matter what...and to the extreme there are some who are just born evil that Satan has dominion over, or even possesed. Their behavior cannot be blamed on how they were raised or their genes.
If I am not right expalin Cain and Abel...was that not God's plan?

 

[preachinjesus]

that whole sin nature thing probably also has something to do with it

and the sins of the fathers being passed uipon the generations to follow

just a thought

I once postulated that the blue M&M carried the evil gene and was responsible for all the evil in the world...j/k

 

[donnA]

It's called the sin nature, that we all are born with.

 

[Phillipians121]

Does anyone here believe Satan can posses the unsaved? I believe he does and some of these nuts in the world are just that, possessed by Satan. Forget sin nature, this is beyond that! A lot of your so called mental illnesses are nothing more then demonic influences or demonic possession. Least we forget the examples in scripture of those who were.

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

.......................examples?

 

[Phillipians121]

Matthew 9:32-33; 12:22; 17:18; Mark 5:1-20; 7:26-30; Luke 4:33-36; Luke 22:3; Acts 16:16-18. Acts 16:16-18, 1 Samuel 16:14-15; 18:10-11; 19:9-10

Leviticus 17:7; Deuteronomy 32:17; Psalm 106:37; 1 Corinthians 10:20

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

There are many Christians who have mental illnesses and Satan can oppress us, but he cannot possess us.

We are born with a sin nature, we are not born evil. I do not believe that anyone is born a homosexual, sex offender, etc. Those are choices one makes.

Cain made the choice to kill Abel, he was not born to do that. He let his emotions rule (jealousy, anger, etc.) and the same thing happens today.

Saved people are sinners saved by grace and can have addictions just like lost people. Both make the choice to sin or break free.

The Truth shall set you free ... no matter what your addiction, but you have to allow it.

 

[Predestined]

Does anyone here believe Satan can posses the unsaved? I believe he does and some of these nuts in the world are just that, possessed by Satan. Forget sin nature, this is beyond that! A lot of your so called mental illnesses are nothing more then demonic influences or demonic possession. Least we forget the examples in scripture of those who were.

A very uncomfortable topic for many........definately a reality we often ignore in this modern age. Missionaries abroad can attest to rather crude manifestations they have witnessed........in a culture such as ours "I feel" that the manifestations are much more subtle....very real nevertheless. As a side note, I was physically attacked by a demon a few years back with vile claw marks on my chest to show for it...............certainly will cause one to view the world in a different light.

 

[Jim1999]

I always had reservations about modern day demon possession until I witnessed an exorcism performed by a missionary from Haiti on a young daughter of a Christian couple in my Saskatchewan church. The parents always had trouble with this girl. She had never professed faith in Christ. They reported that some nights she wold literally foam at the mouth and shout out obsecenities for no real cause.

The missionary was visiting our church and I explained what was happening. His wife said they had seen that a lot in Haiti. We talked to the parents and they agreed to this missionary laying on hands and praying over this girl. I am not going to get descriptive, but it was an awful experience. The outcome was that she received Christ into her life and did a complete turnabout in her life.

Whilst I accept the reality of demon possession, I do not attribute such things as homosexuality as part of it. We are born in sin, and why cannot a person be born with homosexual tendencies? I think we are brain washed on this particular topic, and resultanly miss the boat. I have a brother who is homosexual, but non-practising. It doesnt change the fact of what he confesses to be. It is not his choice, but the fact remains. Medical science has not made a determinative decision on the why's and wherefore's...I shall wait for that. In the Anglican Church I attended, there were two young ladies who lived together. Both are professing Christians. The one was born to Baptist missionary parents on the mission field. That is where she grew up. She is also a medical doctor. I am not about to give up on them.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Phillipians121]

There are many Christians who have mental illnesses and Satan can oppress us, but he cannot possess us.

We are born with a sin nature, we are not born evil. I do not believe that anyone is born a homosexual, sex offender, etc. Those are choices one makes.

Cain made the choice to kill Abel, he was not born to do that. He let his emotions rule (jealousy, anger, etc.) and the same thing happens today.

Yes I agree Satan cannot posses us (christians) but influence us. I still feel schizophrenia is caused by demonic influences (explaining why they hear voices and want to HURT people)...whereas manic depression or bi polar gets the blame for ones own personality makeup.

Yes we are born with a sin nature, and yes Cain killed Abel by choice due to his sin nature. My point with my friend was that she thinks if one is raised in a good loving home (which I believe Cain and Abel were ) they would never murder or have any psychological problems. I disagreed, which I am sure you and many on here would too. That that is NOT true and gave Cain and abel as an example.

Our discussion started with really wacked out people who are serial killers and serial sex offenders, who have NO REMORSE for their crimes and have NO feelings towards anyone but THEMSELVES. this isn't normal, and can only be explained away by demonic influences or possession. Not a once in a while slip up like Cain did, due to a selfish motive due to ones sin nature. The problem with our justice system is they cannot distinguish between the two and act accordingly.

The ACT of homosexuality is a choice you are right but having FEELINGS of being attracted to the same sex is NOT. One cannot help feelings of attraction or even feelings of being the wrong sex. Just as much as one cannot help having feelings of anger, jealousy, lust or the like. It is what we do with those feelings that is wrong or right. If this is not true then why would anyone in their right mind want to live a life that would be so hard?

The bottom line is no one can determine how a person will turn out by how they were raised....good or bad.

 

[Phillipians121]

[Whilst I accept the reality of demon possession, I do not attribute such things as homosexuality as part of it. We are born in sin, and why cannot a person be born with homosexual tendencies?

Let me make this clear as i never lumped homosexuality in with demon possession. I am talking about people who are serial murders....who molest and kill children, women or anyone for that matter. People who have no conscience or feelings for others. You can even have a person who is a sex offender, who knows what he is doing is wrong, feels bad about it and knows he needs help. That is different from someone who kills for no other reason but peer joy or it turns them on. That is sick and can only be caused by demonic influences or possession.

My friend thinks if this person was rasied differently they would have never truned out like that. I disagreed and am right. Because it has to do with forces way beyond our control....It's spiritual not physical.

 

[annsni]

Let me make this clear as i never lumped homosexuality in with demon possession. I am talking about people who are serial murders....who molest and kill children, women or anyone for that matter. People who have no conscience or feelings for others. You can even have a person who is a sex offender, who knows what he is doing is wrong, feels bad about it and knows he needs help. That is different from someone who kills for no other reason but peer joy or it turns them on. That is sick and can only be caused by demonic influences or possession.

My friend thinks if this person was rasied differently they would have never truned out like that. I disagreed and am right. Because it has to do with forces way beyond our control....It's spiritual not physical.

Hmm - but are they demon posessed from birth or does it happen at a later time? Could it be that the same person, in a normal family could have not had the same experiences that might have opened that person up to demonic influence? Maybe playing satanic games, maybe a molestation - or other occurance that would have opened them up to demonic influences. Most everyone who I've experienced who has had demonic influences/posession had something in their life that opened them up - that it was not just a normal childhood and suddenly a demon was there. I DO think that upbringing can influence that.

Ann

 

[I Am Blessed 24]

If upbringing has no bearing on how an individual turns out; why did God give us so much instruction on the right way to raise a child?

 

[Jim1999]

So, maybe a hyper-fundamentalism can turn one daughter of 4 into a demon-possessed young lady of 16 years?

I am puzzled, and I don't have an answer as to when or how or even why.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Phillipians121]

To Annsni, I agree there are those cases which are more often than not, that were brought on by dabbling let's say in the occult or music etc. I agree...I would also conclude that there also cases where a child can just be a bad seed, whether that happens at birth or before or whenever I do not know. I just know the same parents can raise more than one child yet they all can turn out differently.

It was recorded that Jeffery Domner (not sure I spelled that right) and others were raised in normal, upper or middle class families. Where nothing extreme happened to them. yet they as small children had a fascination with killing small animals, and later pornography etc.

If upbringing has no bearing on how an individual turns out; why did God give us so much instruction on the right way to raise a child?

Very good question one I have thought about. Again go back to Cain and Abel, they couldn't have been raised in any better of a home in history. yet that didn't stop Cain from doing what he did.

We as christians claim to many Bible verses to be promises that are CONDITIONAL. That if I do such and such then God has to do his part. WRONG!

Nothing in this world is a guarentee, NOTHING including raising children. The only guarentee we have as christians is that if we raise them in God's word and do our best with what we know, then they have something to ALWAYS fall back on....they have a better chance of doing and knowing right from wrong and being saved. They have NO excuses to live a life of sin, unlike the heathen who knows not otherwise.

You can not find one bible verse that says if you raise your kids by these guidelines then they will turn out loving God and others.

 

[annsni]

Why were Cain and Abel raised in a perfect home? They did not have the genetic defects that we have but their parents were certainly sinful and could have not raised those boys well at all! We have no idea how well or poorly they raised them.

Ann

 

[rbell]

Q: Nature or Nurture?
A: Yes.

 

[Phillipians121]

Why were Cain and Abel raised in a perfect home? They did not have the genetic defects that we have but their parents were certainly sinful and could have not raised those boys well at all! We have no idea how well or poorly they raised them.

What do you mean their parents couldn't have raised them well at all? If they couldn't who on Earth now indays can? I can't believe you said that?

Let's see Adam and Eve had direct fellowship with God. Meaning they spoke to God and God spoke to them.

They didn't have all the bad influences of today. TV, Movies, Ungodly Music, Drugs, Alchol, etc. They had a sin nature that was geared towards selfishness and wanting ones own way....but nothing like we have today or even hundreds or thousands of years ago. If you can think of a better upbringing than theirs I'd love to hear about it.