"Get Them "Saved" or Add Them to the Church?

[thatbrian]

If I step back from the American version of Christianity which is indeed difficult for me to clear my vision of, as I've been immersed in it for 35 years, I see a problem (I see many, actually). American individualism mixed with the decisionism left to us by the Second Great Awakening has us "offering" the salvation of Chist, apart from His Church. We present the Gospel in such a way as to avoid the NT reality that brought salvation BY and THROUGH the Church, aka, the "Body of Christ".

What we have created in doing this is a mass of people who think of their membership (we are members of the Body) is optional. Even those who have a strong commitment to attend a local church each Lord's Day do not, many times, have a grasp of the idea that Christ and His Church are inseparable. He is found, and His benefits received, only in and through His Church.

In your opinion, do American evangelicals have a low view of church?

 

[JonShaff]

Yes.

Hey look, we can agree on things

Individualism, consumerism, humanism have affected our understanding big time.

I'll speak to this in more detail later, but your OP Brings up some things that need to be addressed.

 

[Reformed]

do American evangelicals have a low view of church?

Without a doubt.

 

[thatbrian]

Without a doubt.

In the recent discussion regarding the gospel and its proper proclamation, I began to think of how a distorted gospel "appeal" leads to a dysfunctional Church, and how the purity of the gospel message was something that the Reformers were passionate about. Today, many of the Reformed, whether capital R or not, are still passionate about it. We are zealous for a pure gospel because we believe a pure gospel makes a pure Church, and we also believe the antithesis, which is why we get so persnickety when it comes to the gospel.

Ecclesia semper reformanda.

 

[BobRyan]

If I step back from the American version of Christianity which is indeed difficult for me to clear my vision of, as I've been immersed in it for 35 years, I see a problem (I see many, actually). American individualism mixed with the decisionism left to us by the Second Great Awakening has us "offering" the salvation of Chist, apart from His Church. We present the Gospel in such a way as to avoid the NT reality that brought salvation BY and THROUGH the Church, aka, the "Body of Christ".

What we have created in doing this is a mass of people who think of their membership (we are members of the Body) is optional. Even those who have a strong commitment to attend a local church each Lord's Day do not, many times, have a grasp of the idea that Christ and His Church are inseparable. He is found, and His benefits received, only in and through His Church.

In your opinion, do American evangelicals have a low view of church?

Easy believism has no need for church... it destroys sanctification, demotes sin, denies the law of God and pretty much "nothing you do can change your saved status" -- so why bother with the inconvenience of church going even for the 1-hour newly-downsized Sabbath?

What is worse in most churches it has become Sabbath-replaced-by-belief-in-evolutionism so then the Bible itself just not that trustworthy.

In those churches.

No big "surprise" that their growth rates decline.

By contrast we have the church that says it defends the Commandments of God, the Bible creation memorial Sabbath "of the LORD" YHWH, opposes evolutionism, and has the same unique-singular end-time-mission for the world as did Noah, and John the baptist for their day. (announcing the close of probation for mankind, second coming of Jesus and the current work of Jesus for mankind)

 

[thatbrian]

Easy believism has no need for church... it destroys sanctification, demotes sin, denies the law of God and pretty much "nothing you do can change your saved status" -- so why bother with the inconvenience of church going even for the 1-hour newly-downsized Sabbath?

What is worse in most churches it has become Sabbath-replaced-by-belief-in-evolutionism so then the Bible itself just not that trustworthy.

In those churches.

No big "surprise" that their growth rates decline.

By contrast we have the church that says it defends the Commandments of God, the Sabbath, opposes evolutionism, a has the same unique-singular end-time-mission for the world as did Noah, and John the baptist for their day.

I agree about easy-believism, but I am talking about much more than that.

 

[Reformed]

In the recent discussion regarding the gospel and its proper proclamation, I began to think of how a distorted gospel "appeal" leads to a dysfunctional Church, and how the purity of the gospel message was something that the Reformers were passionate about. Today, many of the Reformed, whether capital R or not, are still passionate about it. We are zealous for a pure gospel because we believe a pure gospel makes a pure Church, and we also believe the antithesis, which is why we get so persnickety when it comes to the gospel.

Ecclesia semper reformanda.

I suggested in another thread that we define the Gospel. When it is defined it usually done so according to its salvific work. But the Gospel is more than just a term used to describe a salvation message. Indeed, it is the good news of the forgiveness of sins and the hope of the resurrection to eternal life to all who believe. But what phrase does the Apostle Paul repeat twice in 1 Corinthians 15 when describing the Gospel? "According to the Scriptures". Starting at Genesis 3:15 we see the promise of the Redeemer. All the covenants point to Christ. So, really, the Gospel is the whole written counsel of God. If we misunderstand God's word, by extension it impacts our understanding of the Gospel.

 

[BobRyan]

I suggested in another thread that we define the Gospel. When it is defined it usually done so according to its salvific work. But the Gospel is more than just a term used to describe a salvation message. Indeed, it is the good news of the forgiveness of sins and the hope of the resurrection to eternal life to all who believe. But what phrase does the Apostle Paul repeat twice in 1 Corinthians 15 when describing the Gospel? "According to the Scriptures". Starting at Genesis 3:15 we see the promise of the Redeemer. All the covenants point to Christ. So, really, the Gospel is the whole written counsel of God. If we misunderstand God's word, by extension it impacts our understanding of the Gospel.

Paul says that the future judgment is "part of the Gospel" Romans 2:13-16
John says that the judgment hour message of Rev 14:6-7 is part of the "everlasting Gospel"

I know of a denomination that specifically includes that as part of the Gospel... do you?

 

[JonShaff]

I suggested in another thread that we define the Gospel. When it is defined it usually done so according to its salvific work. But the Gospel is more than just a term used to describe a salvation message. Indeed, it is the good news of the forgiveness of sins and the hope of the resurrection to eternal life to all who believe. But what phrase does the Apostle Paul repeat twice in 1 Corinthians 15 when describing the Gospel? "According to the Scriptures". Starting at Genesis 3:15 we see the promise of the Redeemer. All the covenants point to Christ. So, really, the Gospel is the whole written counsel of God. If we misunderstand God's word, by extension it impacts our understanding of the Gospel.

Brother, I said the same thing (and I give a hardy Amen to your post) in that other thread. I totally agree with you...backing me up would have been nice

Do Calvinists Distort the Gospel?

 

[Yeshua1]

Without a doubt.

Yes, due to our indiviaulism , and also that some pastors and other leaders seem not to palce a high value on what the scriptures teach concerning the church either!