GM Cost Saving Proposal

[LeBuick]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081202/AUTO01/812020426/1148/AUTO01

GM's plan has CEO Rick Wagoner cutting his salary from $2.2 million this year to $1, according to a person briefed on the plan. GM also is asking for up to $18 billion in emergency financial aid and, in return, offering to eliminate 30,000 jobs, shutter nine plants, reopen the United Auto Workers contract and sell Saab, shrink the Pontiac brand and talk to dealers about the future of Saturn.

I don't think they swung at the nail. They want to layoff 30K and close 9 plants. Notice, nothing about executive pay in this proposal (except the CEO). I concede you guys appear to have been right. Perhaps we should just let them fail. The purpose of the Gov help was to save jobs.

Also keep in mind, they pay the laid off workers 90% of their salary. Why bother.

 

[Revmitchell]

Look, if they fail they will be forced to look at things honestly instead of propping up high on the hog living. It may even force some execs out and pull in someone who has more than themselves at interest. Let the Market work.

 

[LeBuick]

Look, if they fail they will be forced to look at things honestly instead of propping up high on the hog living. It may even force some execs out and pull in someone who has more than themselves at interest. Let the Market work.

You may be right for GM.

I don't know about let the market work but a pre-packaged chpt 11 appears to be the only brick hard enough for their heads.

 

[rbell]

I'm not for a bailout at all...but at least Ford did the expedient stuff:

CEO works for $1 next year.
They sell more property than GM.
They sell their corporate jets.


But I keep coming back to this: out of the 20 worst cars of the year named by Consumer Reports, I believe half of them were GM products. (I thing 17 out of 20 were "Big 3" cars).

If your product is inferior, you won't make it...unless you're the Federal Government.

 

[givengrace]

No one BAILED out the Air lines. Delta Filed bankruptcy and reorganized and then merged after coming out of Bankruptcy. Why can't the 3 big car dealers?

 

[Revmitchell]

No one BAILED out the Air lines. Delta Filed bankruptcy and reorganized and then merged after coming out of Bankruptcy. Why can't the 3 big car dealers?

Oh! Well.. don't go throwing facts in here. Then the Dems can't save the excessive Union contracts that are the problem to begin with.

 

[Jim1999]

I think the government's concern is not the auto plants, but all the suppliers in each city that will also close. The effect on local economies is frightening.

I don't think that bankruptcy, in this case, is the answer..too many people outside the plants will suffer.

It is fine to say they shold have used their needles 5 years ago when designing a vehicle for to-day, but they didn't and now there is a problem.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[carpro]

http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081202/AUTO01/812020426/1148/AUTO01



I don't think they swung at the nail. They want to layoff 30K and close 9 plants. Notice, nothing about executive pay in this proposal (except the CEO). I concede you guys appear to have been right. Perhaps we should just let them fail. The purpose of the Gov help was to save jobs.

Also keep in mind, they pay the laid off workers 90% of their salary. Why bother.

It doesn't make much difference what the details of the plan are.

The fix is in. They'll get the money.

That being said, you need to come to grips with reality. They can't compete without leaning down, ie closing plants , cutting employees, closing the job bank, and renegotiating the UAW contract.

Lowering executive salaries is the easiest to deal with and has the least effect on the success or failure of the company. It's largely a symbolic gesture., but looms large in the minds of those jealous of the financial success of others.

 

[LeBuick]

No one BAILED out the Air lines. Delta Filed bankruptcy and reorganized and then merged after coming out of Bankruptcy. Why can't the 3 big car dealers?

I think the difference is the airlines restructured one at a time where as we are facing the entire auto industry collapsing at once. I think if all the airlines failed simultaneously the government would have intervened.

 

[LeBuick]

It doesn't make much difference what the details of the plan are.

The fix is in. They'll get the money.

That being said, you need to come to grips with reality. They can't compete without leaning down, ie closing plants , cutting employees, closing the job bank, and renegotiating the UAW contract.

Lowering executive salaries is the easiest to deal with and has the least effect on the success or failure of the company. It's largely a symbolic gesture., but looms large in the minds of those jealous of the financial success of others.

Perhaps, my problem is they are cutting jobs first. I would like to see them close the job banks, renog UAW contract, lower exec salaries etc... first and only lay off workers as a last resort. I think the first suggestions along with the bailout money should allow them to put a reasonable price on a car. Add to that the efforts to free up credit and we should have a productive industry again. If not then plant closings and layoffs may be needed.

 

[ray Marshall]

I think the difference is the airlines restructured one at a time where as we are facing the entire auto industry collapsing at once. I think if all the airlines failed simultaneously the government would have intervened.

For heaven's sake, don't let the government fix it====It will really be fixed.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Also keep in mind, they pay the laid off workers 90% of their salary. Why bother.

That's a union issue. The union has to concede (and it looks like they will, but it's too late ... they have already driven the thing into the ground).

I would like to see them close the job banks, renog UAW contract, lower exec salaries etc... first and only lay off workers as a last resort.

How can they keep workers? There is nothing for them to do. People aren't buying cars and so there is no need to build more cars. The job banks/union wages have to be renegotiated by the union, but the unions around here have the Big Three wrapped around their finger, though I think that is changing. Gettelfinger has a lot of blame to shoulder in this mess.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

1. Merge the Big Three into a single company to compete with foreign manufacturers
2. Eliminate redundant nameplates, e.g. GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Dodge, Mercury, etc. Keep Chevy, Ford, Cadillac, Jeep, Saturn.
3. Require minimum percentages of US content on parts.
4. Return jobs to the USA for cars that are sold in the USA.
5. Then and only then, provide some kind of loan assistance.

Edited to add....one more condition...develop cars that get us off the addiction to fossil fuels.

 

[LeBuick]

How can they keep workers? There is nothing for them to do. People aren't buying cars and so there is no need to build more cars.

Fix he ones they sold. They can start with my Buick which has many rattles and creaks that I can't hear myself talk to myself while I drive.

The job banks/union wages have to be renegotiated by the union, but the unions around here have the Big Three wrapped around their finger, though I think that is changing. Gettelfinger has a lot of blame to shoulder in this mess.

I agree 100%. I concur that a chpt 11 will end the union agreement and if nothing else, make them start from scratch. I am sure there is a lot of fat in that agreement that can be trimmed. UAW is loosing public opinion which means the Dems will start looking the other way.

 

[LeBuick]

1. Merge the Big Three into a single company to compete with foreign manufacturers
2. Eliminate redundant nameplates, e.g. GMC, Pontiac, Buick, Dodge, Mercury, etc. Keep Chevy, Ford, Cadillac, Jeep, Saturn.
3. Require minimum percentages of US content on parts.
4. Return jobs to the USA for cars that are sold in the USA.
5. Then and only then, provide some kind of loan assistance.

Edited to add....one more condition...develop cars that get us off the addiction to fossil fuels.

I like the rest of your idea's but I'm a GM man. Buick to be exact. I can't hate Ford if they're made by the same company... :BangHead:

 

[carpro]

I like the rest of your idea's but I'm a GM man. Buick to be exact. I can't hate Ford if they're made by the same company... :BangHead:

You won't like it once it dawns on you that part of that deal would include cutting tens of thousands of jobs.

 

[rbell]

GM's CEO is an idiot.

As you've heard, the big dogs drove to washington.

GM's top dog did as well...but when he got within a few miles of DC, he traded his Malibu hybrid for the Chevy Volt (the electric concept car).

Guess what? They had to ship that car there.

SOURCE

They spent more money on that that they did the charter plane!

They are doing publicity stunts to earn our tax money.

This proves to me that they will squander it immediately...yet another reason this is a terrible idea, and yet another reason these guys just don't get it.

(by the way...many industry insiders tell us the volt is rife with problems, and it may not be even close to ready by roll-out in 2010.)

 

[Revmitchell]

GM's CEO is an idiot.

As you've heard, the big dogs drove to washington.

GM's top dog did as well...but when he got within a few miles of DC, he traded his Malibu hybrid for the Chevy Volt (the electric concept car).

Guess what? They had to ship that car there.

SOURCE

They spent more money on that that they did the charter plane!

They are doing publicity stunts to earn our tax money.

This proves to me that they will squander it immediately...yet another reason this is a terrible idea, and yet another reason these guys just don't get it.

(by the way...many industry insiders tell us the volt is rife with problems, and it may not be even close to ready by roll-out in 2010.)

Aside from it being unconstitutional.

 

[just-want-peace]

Aside from it being unconstitutional.

AMEN, AMEN, and AMEN!!!!

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig4/ellis1.html

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]The next morning a bill was introduced appropriating $20,000 for their relief. We put aside all other business and rushed it through as soon as it could be done.----------------------

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, Times, serif]"'Yes, I know you; you are Colonel Crockett. I have seen you once before, and voted for you the last time you were elected. I suppose you are out electioneering now, but you had better not waste your time or mine. I shall not vote for you again.' [/FONT]

I would say that we have come a far distance from the "unconstitutional" government of Crockett's day; wouldn't you??

I anxiously await all the excuses as to why our modern gov't is so far removed from the original concept!! :BangHead:

 

[LeBuick]

GM's CEO is an idiot.

As you've heard, the big dogs drove to washington.

GM's top dog did as well...but when he got within a few miles of DC, he traded his Malibu hybrid for the Chevy Volt (the electric concept car).

Guess what? They had to ship that car there.

SOURCE

They spent more money on that that they did the charter plane!

They are doing publicity stunts to earn our tax money.

This proves to me that they will squander it immediately...yet another reason this is a terrible idea, and yet another reason these guys just don't get it.

(by the way...many industry insiders tell us the volt is rife with problems, and it may not be even close to ready by roll-out in 2010.)

I expected them to fly coach then pick up a loaner car from one f their dealers. These guys have no clue how to save money.