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God’s grace, plus the believer’s part: enduring faith, works, obedience!

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Browner, Feb 20, 2016.

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  1. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Saving faith results in obedience!

    Matthew 19:
    16 Now behold, one came and said to Him, “Good Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may have eternal life?”
    17 So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
    But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”
    18 He said to Him, “Which ones?” Jesus said, “‘You shall not murder,’ ‘You shall not commit adultery,’ ‘You shall not steal,’ ‘You shall not bear false witness,’
    19 ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ ”
    Mark 10:
    17 Now as He was going out on the road, one came running, knelt before Him, and asked Him, “Good Teacher, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?”
    18 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
    19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Do not defraud,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
    Luke 18:
    18 Now a certain ruler asked Him, saying, “Good Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?”
    19 So Jesus said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God.
    20 You know the commandments: ‘Do not commit adultery,’ ‘Do not murder,’ ‘Do not steal,’ ‘Do not bear false witness,’ ‘Honor your father and your mother.’ ”
    There are many more NT verses which say obedience is required to obtain eternal life.

    Saving faith results in works!

    The Parable of the Talents -- Matthew 25:14-30
    5 talents produced 5 more -- “good and faithful servant”
    2 talents produced 2 more -- “good and faithful servant”
    1 talent produced 0 more -- “wicked and lazy servant”, “unprofitable servant” …
    “cast the unprofitable servant into the outer darkness.
    There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”
    Somehow, this just doesn’t sound like heaven to me!
    “Christ gives different gifts to different people according to their ability … But whatever gifts He gives, He wants us to use them … Christ does not expect everyone to return the same amount to Him (Mk 4:20). But He does expect that we return to Him all that we can. Especially, He expects from us our love, our faith, our obedience … The wicked and lazy servant in the end did not preserve his talent; he lost it. If we do not use our spiritual and material blessings in God’s service, they will be taken away from us. If we grieve the Holy Spirit, He will depart from us … The punishment for a servant who misuses a gift of God is very severe. When we do not use God’s gift in His service, we cheat God,
    we oppose God. Therefore, He will oppose us.”
    (Dr. Thomas Holt (a Spirit-filled missionary),
    The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996)

    The Parable of the Minas -- Luke 19:12-27
    10 minas produced 10 more -- “good servant”
    10 minas produced 5 more -- “good servant”
    1 mina produced 0 more -- “wicked servant” …
    “bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me
    to reign over them, and slay them before me.”
    Somehow, this just doesn’t sound like heaven to me!
    “The parable of the ten minas (Lk 19:12-27) is very similar to this parable of the talents … the meaning of (the 2 parables) is the same … we all must use the gifts of God as diligently as we can, and that God will reward each of us according to our work and faithfulness … Then at the end of the parable, the king had
    those enemies put to death (Lk 19:27) … Let us not be among those who oppose the true King, Christ, the King of Kings. If we reject His gifts, if we refuse to serve Him, we shall bring upon ourselves eternal condemnation.”
    (Dr. Thomas Holt (a Spirit-filled missionary),
    The Applied New Testament Commentary, 1996)

    Believers today who have been following false teachers …
    are like the Hebrews of Jesus’ time who were following the Pharisees!
    IMO, it is a case of not only the blind following the blind, but also
    often the deliberate and selfish choice to place themselves over their sheep.
     
    #1 Browner, Feb 20, 2016
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2016
  2. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    Just one question: when you were saved, how did you come to know the truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, through reading/hearing Scripture and coming to a logical conclusion, or was that truth revealed to you?


    God bless.
     
    #2 Darrell C, Feb 20, 2016
  3. Browner

    Browner Member

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    All spiritual Truth comes via spiritual revelation from God.
    But, I'm not talking about a child hearing the gospel,
    Jesus is God, etc. and just believing intellectually.
    Truly believing with the whole heart results in a big change.

    My spiritual revelation resulted in me devouring the word
    and my ideas, attitudes, opinions, etc. about many things
    changed.

    And 5 years later, Jesus blessed me with the baptism
    with the Holy Spirit ... with the initial confirmation of
    me speaking a few words in tongues.

    There are 9 spiritual power gifts (1 Cor 12),
    but speaking in tongues is not one that I have.
     
    #3 Browner, Feb 22, 2016
  4. Darrell C

    Darrell C Well-Known Member
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    And if this is your answer you would be correct...it was revealed to you, not intellectually discerned.

    This is why you were saved, Browner, not something you did.


    Understood, and I agree. Before salvation, you were dead to the Truth, and dependent on God to open your understanding to your condition.


    That is true, but keep in mind when you were saved you still only knew the basic truths. It is as you grow that you learn of God and in this your faith in Christ grows. And when we come to the place where we acknowledge the Gospel of Jesus Christ fully, and with the whole heart, we understand better that it is not, as Scripture teaches, works of righteousness which we have done, but by His mercy that we are born again.


    Your spiritual revelation?

    No, as you said, God's spiritual revelation. That is how He has always saved men.


    Regeneration, the new birth, is salvation. It is at that time you were baptized into Christ. This is the Baptism with the Holy Ghost. It is not a subsequent event after salvation. You cannot possibly be saved if you are not in Christ, and indwelt eternally by God.

    I invite you to join the "Were men Born Again before Pentecost" thread, where an in-depth discussion of the New Birth is the focus.

    While I know some view the Baptism with the Holy Ghost as a subsequent event of empowering, if we carefully study the passages concerning the Baptism with the Holy Spirit we see that this is the event which began at Pentecost in which those forgiven are reconciled to God.

    When you were saved, that was the time you received the Spirit of God.


    So who did you speak to? Did they understand you? This is the reason the Gift of Languages was used in Scripture, that those of other languages might have the Gospel conveyed to them. Paul does not change the events on Pentecost in 1 Corinthians.


    So why do you say your salvation was confirmed by you speaking in tongues. Your salvation can only be confirmed in your remaining in the faith, not by the expression and utilization of gifts. I would suggest to you that most Christians are not even aware of what their gifts are, yet this does not nullify their salvation. Obedience comes only through understanding of truth, for if one does not know the truth they cannot obey it. And we learn of God's will through study, which is opened to us by the Spirit.

    What I would suggest to you, Browner, is a careful examination of the texts you think teach works contribute to the Cross. When you do that, and then study those passages which make it clear salvation is accomplished by Christ alone, you will see that while Christians are saved to perform good works, they were and never will be saved by them.

    I will ask you to explain one verse for me...


    Hebrews 10:14

    King James Version (KJV)

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.



    Here, the Writer sums up the context of Hebrews 9 and 10. It is the clearest statement of the finality of forgiveness/remission of sins to be found in the Bible, in my opinion.

    So tell me what you think the Writer, and by extension, God is saying to us here.


    God bless.
     
    #4 Darrell C, Feb 22, 2016
  5. Browner

    Browner Member

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    Darrell, you are asking for a lot of answers,
    which will be forthcoming on Thursday.

    There is a reason why God has somewhat hidden
    some spiritual Truths in the NT
    (such as the 2nd baptism of spiritual anointing):
    so as to not discourage those who do not have it,
    nor will they ever have it.
    (Jesus does not choose to give it to everyone.)
    Does this make any sense to you?
     
    #5 Browner, Feb 24, 2016
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