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God and His "Absolute" - "Free Will"

Discussion in 'Calvinism & Arminianism Debate' started by Benjamin, Sep 9, 2019.

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  1. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    Decorum: If you do not like philosophy, this thread is not for you and those intended de-railing arguments are not welcome here. Therefore, if philosophy offends you and you’d like to make an issue of it please begin your thread about that or go about with the habitual circular proof-texting without logical reason you prefer elsewhere, …please.

    You’re going deep on me, bro. First, I don't change what the scriptures describes but rather reason for it's meanings and truths. It’s cool, I like this discussion but it’s been a while and I don’t know how much time I’ve got, but I’ll open it by sharing a few of my thoughts and info on the subject. I’ve previously studied, discussed and thought much of this through in consideration of what is known as, Aseity and “The Doctrine of Divine Simplicity”.

    Unlike being created, the being of God is identical to the "attributes" of God. For example, God does not have goodness, but simply is goodness. God is what He has, He does not have evil, therefore He can not be evil.

    God is His own cause of being. His attributes are His own. His being of wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, love, and truth are concrete, personal and describe the whole Nature of God and He is Unchanging. Nothing that is in Him did not come from Him and He is “simply” the complete cause of who He is.

    We humans were created with attributes that are subject to change. God caused creation to be and in doing so He divinely designed creatures who were made in His likeness and image which were placed into time and space. We have certain attributes that we were designed with which we cannot change either but we also have other attributes or parts of us which obviously do change, our bodies, minds and even spirit may change. For instance, from the very beginning of our own doing, in disobedience to God, we gained the attribute of the knowledge of good and evil. In the fall we did not lose our ability to choose or lose the attributes of human volition. God did not re-create His creatures at that time, we have the same human condition divinely given to Adam to choose and change and we have gained the “knowledge” of good and evil. Because we can choose evil, we do choose evil, maybe not always but it only takes once and our standard of being falls into death as evil separates us from God.

    Now, man was made in the image and likeness of God, but as for nature of being, in contrast and comparison to the Aseity and the “Doctrine of Divine Simplicity” I have termed the condition of man as the “Doctrine of Humanistic Complexity”. It could be said we each have limitations according to our nature of being.

    Bottom line concerning God and His “free will”: God is only Good, He can not choose evil, He can not change to evil. In fact, to say that God can change or be what He is not is heresy.

    “God is what he has. As identical to each of his attributes, God is identical to his nature. And since his nature or essence is identical to his existence, God is identical to his existence. This is the doctrine of divine simplicity (DDS). It is represented not only in classical Christian theology, but also in Jewish, Greek, and Islamic thought. It is to be understood as an affirmation of God's absolute transcendence of creatures. God is not only radically non-anthropomorphic, but radically non-creaturomorphic, not only in respect of the properties he possesses, but in his manner of possessing them. God, we could say, differs in his very ontology from any and all created beings.”

    Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy, William F. Vallicella
     
    #1 Benjamin, Sep 9, 2019
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  2. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    Why start another thread on "FREE WILL" when one is now currently opened?

    SOME INTERESTING SCRIPTURES ON FREE WILL

    PHILEMON 1:14 (different translations)

    (ARV 2005) but without thy mind I would do nothing, that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (ASV-2014) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (Anderson) but, without your consent, I was not willing to do any thing, that your good deed might not be as a matter of necessity, BUT ONE OF FREE WILL.

    (ASV) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (FAA) but I did not want to do anything without your opinion, so that your good deed would not be as it were under compulsion, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (GDBY_NT) but without your consent I did not wish to do anything; in order that your good might not be by constraint, BUT BY THE FREE WILL

    (GW) Yet, I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I want you to do this favor for me OUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL WITHOUT FEELING FORCED TO DO IT

    (csb) But I didn't want to do anything without your consent, so that your good deed might not be out of obligation, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL

    (LEB) But apart from your consent, I wanted to do nothing, in order that your good deed might be not as according to necessity, but ACCORDING TO YOUR OWN FREE WILL

    (MRC) but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness might not be by necessity, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (MNT) But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL AND NOT OF COMPULSION.

    (NTVR) but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (NWT) But without your consent I do not want to do anything, so that your good act may be, not as under compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (Revised Standard ) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (RNT) but without your consent I am unwilling to do anything, so that your goodness may not be of necessity BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (RSV-CE) but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (TLV) But I didn’t want to do anything without your consent, so that your goodness wouldn’t be by force BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (WEB) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (WEB (R)) But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (Wuest's) Georgia;;14-16 But I came to a decision in my heart to do nothing without your consent, in order that your goodness might not be as it were by compulsion BUT OF FREE WILL. For perhaps on this account he was parted for a brief time in order that you might be possessing him fully and forever, no longer in the capacity of a slave, but above a slave, a brother , a beloved one, beloved most of all by me, how much more than that by you, both in his human relationship and in the Lord.

    (NASB77) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, that your goodness should not be as it were by compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (NASB95)14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (TEV)14 However, I do not want to force you to help me; rather, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO DO IT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL. So I will not do anything unless you agree.

    (ERV) 14 but without thy mind I would do nothing; that thy goodness should not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (NHEB) 14 But I was willing to do nothing without your consent, that your goodness would not be as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    (TCE) 14 but without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your goodness would not be, in effect, by compulsion BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    and you can add both the NEB and the REB

    CT 14but I would not do any thing without thy consent, that the benefit derived from thee might not be as it were forced, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    NENT 14but without thy: mind I wished to do nothing; that thy: goodness be not as of necessity, BUT OF FREE WILL.

    SLT 14 But without thy judgment I would do nothing; that good might not be as according to necessity, BUT ACCORDING TO FREE WILL..

    (NEB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    (REB) 14 But I would rather do nothing without your consent, so that your kindness may be a matter not of compulsion, BUT OF YOUR OWN FREE WILL.

    ............

    ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

    Free will we see is not a matter of necessity
    Free will is a will not under compulsion
    Free will is consensual
    Free will is a will not forced

    ............

    From alternate translations

    Philemon 1:14 (ESV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent in order that your goodness might not be by compulsion but of your own accord.

    Philemon 1:14 (KJV) 14 But without thy mind would I do nothing; that thy benefit should not be as it were of necessity, but willingly.

    Philemon 1:14 (NET1) 14 However,[33] without your consent I did not want to do anything, so that your good deed would not be out of compulsion, but from your own willingness.

    Philemon 1:14 (NIV2011) 14 But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary.

    Philemon 1:14 (NJB) 14 However, I did not want to do anything without your consent; it would have been forcing your act of kindness, which should be spontaneous.

    Philemon 1:14 (NRSV) 14 but I preferred to do nothing without your consent, in order that your good deed might be voluntary and not something forced.

    Philemon 1:14 (BBE) 14 But without your approval I would do nothing; so that your good works might not be forced, but done freely from your heart.

    Philemon 1:14 (MontgomeryNT) 14 But without your consent I was unwilling to do anything, so that your kindness to me might be of your own free will, and not of compulsion.

    Philemon 1:14 (CEB) 14 However, I didn't want to do anything without your consent so that your act of kindness would occur willingly and not under pressure.

    Philemon 1:14 (CEV) 14 But I won't do anything unless you agree to it first. I want your act of kindness to come from your heart, and not be something you feel forced to do.

    ............

    ALL the above scripture tranlsations translate free will in the following context...

    Free will is without necessity
    Free will is without compulsion
    Free will is without force
    Free will is a will not pressured
    Free will is from one own heart
    Free will is a voluntary
    Free will is of your own accord
    Free will is without constraint

    And one last verse not Phm 1:14

    1 Corinthians 7:37 (KJV) 37 Nevertheless he that standeth stedfast in his heart, having no necessity, but hath power over his own will, and hath so decreed in his heart that he will keep his virgin, doeth well.

    Free will has no necessity and is under ones own power


    Deuteronomy 30:19 KJB - I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, [that] I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

    JOSHUA 24:14-15 [14], Now therefore fear the LORD, and serve him in sincerity and in truth: and put away the gods which your fathers served on the other side of the flood, and in Egypt; and serve you the LORD. [15], And if it seem evil to you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom you will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

    Not looking so good for those who believe in robots.
     
    #2 3rdAngel, Sep 9, 2019
  3. RighteousnessTemperance&

    RighteousnessTemperance& Well-Known Member

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    This thread is about the free will of God, not man.
    God and His "Absolute" - "Free Will"
     
    #3 RighteousnessTemperance&, Sep 9, 2019
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  4. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    BECAUSE I'm not interested in your copy and paste heretical teachings on man's free will = that must be kept by his work of "following" [​IMG] and this thread is certainly of a different subject than your threads. Please stay on the subject or stay out and do not de-rail this thread.
     
    #4 Benjamin, Sep 9, 2019
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  5. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    So in your view God's free will does not effect mankinds free will when man was made in the image of God *GENESIS 1:26?
     
    #5 3rdAngel, Sep 9, 2019
  6. 3rdAngel

    3rdAngel Member

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    I would suggest that it is because you cannot respond to the scriptures provided that disagree with you that show your in error. But hey each to their own. We all stand before God come judgment day. How sad will that be for those who had the chance to hear God's Word and chose to turn away from it not knowing the day of thier visitation. Only sent in love and wish you only love joy and peace as you seek Jesus through his Word.
     
    #6 3rdAngel, Sep 9, 2019
  7. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    First, I guess you either didn't understand the opening "decorum" or have chosen to ignore it for your agenda!! You are off topic and from the very start after I asked that you refrain from do so.

    I would ask a moderator to intervene here because otherwise I'm not going to spend my time and keep this thread open for it to merely be de-railed by you, Show some respect.

    Second, I'm getting REAL tired of hearing your boneheaded fallacious argument of telling me/others that I/they disagree with scripture!! This thread is about logical reasoning along with scriptures, not your "special" little god private understandings of the scriptures!
     
    #7 Benjamin, Sep 9, 2019
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  8. Benjamin

    Benjamin Well-Known Member
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    This is why I rarely engage in debate here.
     
    #8 Benjamin, Sep 9, 2019
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  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Closed at OP request.
     
    #9 Squire Robertsson, Sep 9, 2019
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