God Eternally Existed Before ANYTHING else was made, correct?

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

First, I need to say, thank you for your response!

You are most gracious, and welcome. :thumbsup:

But you didn't provide any verses that says that God NOW "see us through the blood of Christ" instead of not remembering our sin like these verses explicitly state:

As I said, the "seeing us through the blood of Christ" phrase is an extrapolation, perhaps a simplistic restating of those verses to preach a truth, though I would admit it could be seen as a stretch of the imagination. I don't believe there is anything essentially wrong with the phrase.

I don't see any contradiction between the verse you quoted (all very good and helpful for this discussion) and the verses I have quoted above.

Nor do I. I was simply making an effort to explain how the phrase "seeing us through the blood ... " could arise. Again, a simplification, perhaps overly done.

I do see a contradiction between the idea that somehow God still sees our sin through "rose colored glasses" every time He looks upon us. It seems to me that God has dealt with the guilt for our sin issue "once for all" when we become a disciple of Jesus and begin the process of sanctification.

I agree with that as well. Our sins are removed, as far as east is from west, no doubt. I think the use of the phrase I admit is extrapolated is a way of expressing how God can see us, essentially still sinful -- at least while in the flesh -- even though our sins are washed away. Certainly that washing continues as long as we live, because we are not perfect and will continue to sin, even in the saving faith of Christ.

We become dead to sin and alive to God at that time. We are crucified with/in Christ and the life we live in the flesh we live by faith in the Son of God. God remembers our sin no more. We are preparing to receive Him as He returns again without reference to sin (Hebrews 9:28). The guilt over our sin is dealt with already (Hebrews 9:26) and the only issue we have with sin at this point is to crucify it (leave it behind) as we are transformed. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that we won't sin on occasion - especially as we are just beginning our journey of discipleship - but our lives will be characterized more and more by the righteousness, love and character of God. Sin will always be "crouching at the door" and we will have to guard against it (and failing occasionally), but that won't be our lifestyle.

Exactly. I think we agree, we're just seeing the verses we've both quote from different angles, though I don't believe they oppose one another.

The reason why I think this is a big deal that God "does not remember our sin" is that in discipleship to Jesus, it is easy to get focused on avoiding sin instead of obeying Jesus.

Amen! When that becomes our focus, we tend to beat ourselves up over that sin rather than remembering Christ has already dealt with it at the cross. Though we need to confess it, and repent, we are nonetheless constantly washed and free from sin.

We are not called to be sin avoiders (although that is part of the calling), but followers of Christ to announce and expand the Kingdom of God. When we are busy doing the work of God, we will find that sin will become less attractive to us and we will find the strength to say no to temptation. We will become the type of person who hates sin and loves God.

Exactly. If we are regretting our sin, it is obvious we are hating our sin, and we obviously love God, or our sin would not be an affront to us. I believe the "seeing us through the blood" statement is just another way of expressing that concept, that while we know we are washed and free, we nonetheless still deal with sin, but we cannot allow ourselves to beat ourselves up over it and drag ourselves down where Satan can continue to maul us relentlessly with our "not being good enough." If we get too far afield of the need to see ourselves as delivered from that sinful nature, then regardless of how we express who we are in Christ, we set ourselves up for self-abuse that we don't need to endure.

 

[quantumfaith]

You are most gracious, and welcome. :thumbsup:

As I said, the "seeing us through the blood of Christ" phrase is an extrapolation, perhaps a simplistic restating of those verses to preach a truth, though I would admit it could be seen as a stretch of the imagination. I don't believe there is anything essentially wrong with the phrase.

Nor do I. I was simply making an effort to explain how the phrase "seeing us through the blood ... " could arise. Again, a simplification, perhaps overly done.

I agree with that as well. Our sins are removed, as far as east is from west, no doubt. I think the use of the phrase I admit is extrapolated is a way of expressing how God can see us, essentially still sinful -- at least while in the flesh -- even though our sins are washed away. Certainly that washing continues as long as we live, because we are not perfect and will continue to sin, even in the saving faith of Christ.

Exactly. I think we agree, we're just seeing the verses we've both quote from different angles, though I don't believe they oppose one another.

Amen! When that becomes our focus, we tend to beat ourselves up over that sin rather than remembering Christ has already dealt with it at the cross. Though we need to confess it, and repent, we are nonetheless constantly washed and free from sin.

Exactly. If we are regretting our sin, it is obvious we are hating our sin, and we obviously love God, or our sin would not be an affront to us. I believe the "seeing us through the blood" statement is just another way of expressing that concept, that while we know we are washed and free, we nonetheless still deal with sin, but we cannot allow ourselves to beat ourselves up over it and drag ourselves down where Satan can continue to maul us relentlessly with our "not being good enough." If we get too far afield of the need to see ourselves as delivered from that sinful nature, then regardless of how we express who we are in Christ, we set ourselves up for self-abuse that we don't need to endure.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[Yeshua1]

You are most gracious, and welcome. :thumbsup:

As I said, the "seeing us through the blood of Christ" phrase is an extrapolation, perhaps a simplistic restating of those verses to preach a truth, though I would admit it could be seen as a stretch of the imagination. I don't believe there is anything essentially wrong with the phrase.

Nor do I. I was simply making an effort to explain how the phrase "seeing us through the blood ... " could arise. Again, a simplification, perhaps overly done.

I agree with that as well. Our sins are removed, as far as east is from west, no doubt. I think the use of the phrase I admit is extrapolated is a way of expressing how God can see us, essentially still sinful -- at least while in the flesh -- even though our sins are washed away. Certainly that washing continues as long as we live, because we are not perfect and will continue to sin, even in the saving faith of Christ.

Exactly. I think we agree, we're just seeing the verses we've both quote from different angles, though I don't believe they oppose one another.

Amen! When that becomes our focus, we tend to beat ourselves up over that sin rather than remembering Christ has already dealt with it at the cross. Though we need to confess it, and repent, we are nonetheless constantly washed and free from sin.

Exactly. If we are regretting our sin, it is obvious we are hating our sin, and we obviously love God, or our sin would not be an affront to us. I believe the "seeing us through the blood" statement is just another way of expressing that concept, that while we know we are washed and free, we nonetheless still deal with sin, but we cannot allow ourselves to beat ourselves up over it and drag ourselves down where Satan can continue to maul us relentlessly with our "not being good enough." If we get too far afield of the need to see ourselves as delivered from that sinful nature, then regardless of how we express who we are in Christ, we set ourselves up for self-abuse that we don't need to endure.

Think we all are basically ageeing on that point, but point still is can God will Himself to literally remember no more?

I think not, as that would go against being "all knowing!"

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Think we all are basically ageeing on that point, but point still is can God will Himself to literally remember no more?

I think not, as that would go against being "all knowing!"

I think the gist of what God says about Himself in "not remembering" has more to do with His not running over and over in His mind how we did thus and such. We as humans tend to relive the wrongs done against us by others, and it is that constant revisiting of those wrongs that prevents us from achieving a willingness to forgive. We can't forget those wrongs, but we can choose to not hold them against others.

I believe that is what God is saying about Himself. He doesn't constantly revisit them, He may be conscious of them, but they do not matter to Him, because He truly has forgiven us in far greater terms than we can ever hope to forgive in our own lives.

 

[Yeshua1]

I think the gist of what God says about Himself in "not remembering" has more to do with His not running over and over in His mind how we did thus and such. We as humans tend to relive the wrongs done against us by others, and it is that constant revisiting of those wrongs that prevents us from achieving a willingness to forgive. We can't forget those wrongs, but we can choose to not hold them against others.

I believe that is what God is saying about Himself. He doesn't constantly revisit them, He may be conscious of them, but they do not matter to Him, because He truly has forgiven us in far greater terms than we can ever hope to forgive in our own lives.

I think that is what happens on this, as the Lord still always knows what we have and will do, He just chooses not to think about them!

So if we aske dHim, do you still know all sins I did, would say yes, but also chooses to not dwell on them!

 

[Baptist Believer]

Exactly. I think we agree, we're just seeing the verses we've both quote from different angles, though I don't believe they oppose one another.

I think we may have a very slight difference in understanding, but in a practical sense, it is negligible.

When that becomes our focus, we tend to beat ourselves up over that sin rather than remembering Christ has already dealt with it at the cross. Though we need to confess it, and repent, we are nonetheless constantly washed and free from sin.

Exactly. If we are regretting our sin, it is obvious we are hating our sin, and we obviously love God, or our sin would not be an affront to us. I believe the "seeing us through the blood" statement is just another way of expressing that concept, that while we know we are washed and free, we nonetheless still deal with sin, but we cannot allow ourselves to beat ourselves up over it and drag ourselves down where Satan can continue to maul us relentlessly with our "not being good enough." If we get too far afield of the need to see ourselves as delivered from that sinful nature, then regardless of how we express who we are in Christ, we set ourselves up for self-abuse that we don't need to endure.

This is well stated and worth repeating.

Sin is dealt with in Christ and we need to move on from being slaves to present sin in our lives, as well as guilt from our lives before Christ.

Thanks!

 

[agedman]

I think the gist of what God says about Himself in "not remembering" has more to do with His not running over and over in His mind how we did thus and such. We as humans tend to relive the wrongs done against us by others, and it is that constant revisiting of those wrongs that prevents us from achieving a willingness to forgive. We can't forget those wrongs, but we can choose to not hold them against others.

I believe that is what God is saying about Himself. He doesn't constantly revisit them, He may be conscious of them, but they do not matter to Him, because He truly has forgiven us in far greater terms than we can ever hope to forgive in our own lives.

God cannot forget, neither can he willingly not remember in the same sense that humankind express with the limitations.

To be under such human constraints would present a disconnect that makes the character and nature of God inconsistent.

It is also good to remember that God does not dwell with a past or future.

He is.

Our humanity cannot fully comprehend this, for humankind is time bound, unlike God who the last of human days is as clearly present with Him as the first.

Therefore, when God stated to Israel that he would remember the sin no more, it isn't that he willingly forgot, or set it aside in not allowing it as a reoccurring thought, or any other such attribute that is time continuum and human related. Though such can be expressed in human terms - with God it is out of character - God cannot not remember.

Rather, it is as He is - the sin never occurred. In God's presence of eternity, such is possible.

Spurgeon gave a sermon on God's Non-Rememberance of Sin that I consider a great help to those who would desire to begin an in depth study.

If folks are interested - click here.

Remember that Spurgeon is often not an easy read, and I suggest taking sections at a time to work through the material.

Challenge his thinking in your mind with Scripture and Scripture principles.

 

[Yeshua1]

God cannot forget, neither can he willingly not remember in the same sense that humankind express with the limitations.

To be under such human constraints would present a disconnect that makes the character and nature of God inconsistent.

It is also good to remember that God does not dwell with a past or future.

He is.

Our humanity cannot fully comprehend this, for humankind is time bound, unlike God who the last of human days is as clearly present with Him as the first.

Therefore, when God stated to Israel that he would remember the sin no more, it isn't that he willingly forgot, or set it aside in not allowing it as a reoccurring thought, or any other such attribute that is time continuum and human related. Though such can be expressed in human terms - with God it is out of character - God cannot not remember.

Rather, it is as He is - the sin never occurred. In God's presence of eternity, such is possible.

Spurgeon gave a sermon on God's Non-Rememberance of Sin that I consider a great help to those who would desire to begin an in depth study.

If folks are interested - click here.

Remember that Spurgeon is often not an easy read, and I suggest taking sections at a time to work through the material.

Challenge his thinking in your mind with Scripture and Scripture principles.

God already knows all that ever happened, now happening, and will happen, as outside time, and He hasall things under hs sovereign control, and all things proceeding to the end of all
time as we now know it, at end of Age, when jesus gives His kingdom abck to the father, and God is in all!

So our sins happened to usin "real time" but God already knew those whom he destined to get saved and covered byt he death of Christ, so the sins never happened her His view on it?