God Gives

[Rippon]

God gives faith and repentance . First , are some verses where God grants repentance .

Acts 5:31 ... to grant to Israel repentance and forgiveness of sins .

Acts 11:18 ... God has granted to the Gentiles also the repentance that leads to life

2 Tim. 2:25 ... in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth


Now some verses where God gives faith .

Eph. 2:8 -- For it is by grace you have been saved , through faith -- and this not from yourselves , it is the gift of God .

1 Cor. 4:7 -- Who makes you to differ ? What do you have that you did not receive ? [ I realize this is by implication and also applies to repentance]

2 Peter 1:1 -- ... to those who through ... our God and Savior jesus Christ have received a faith ...

Phil . 1:29 -- For it has been granted to you ... to believe on Him

Acts 3:16 ... the faith that comes through Him

Acts 18:27 ... those who by grace had believed

Acts 13:48 -- As many as were appointed [ ordained , predestined ] to eternal life believed .

2 Tim. 1:9 -- ... this grace was given us ...

 

[James_Newman]

Who are you trying to convince, the elect?

 

[Rippon]

I don't know . I just had the wild idea that Scripture might matter to some here .

 

[James_Newman]

thats the whole problem with calvinism. If what you say is true then nothing really matters.

 

[Helen]

Originally posted by Rippon:
I don't know . I just had the wild idea that Scripture might matter to some here .

Oh, you are absolutely right! Here is some more Scripture:

from Psalm 34 -- I sought the Lord, and he answered me; he delivered me from all my fears.
...Taste and see that the Lord is good; blessed is the man who takes refuge in him.
...The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing.

Psalm 40:16 -- But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you;

Psalm 69:32 -- The poor will see and be glad -- you who seek God, may your hearts live!

Psalm 70:4 -- But may all who seek you rejoice and be glad in you;

Psalm 105:3-4 -- Glory in his holy name; let the hearts of those who seek the Lord rejoice.
Look to the Lord and his strength; seek his face always.

Psalm 119:2 -- Blessed are they who keep his statutes and seek him with all their heart.

Proverbs 28:5 -- Evil men do not understand justice, but those who seek the Lord understand it fully.

Isaiah 55:6-7 -- Seek the Lord while he may be found; call on him while he is near.
Let the wicked forsake his way and the evil man his thoughts.
Let him turn to the Lord and he will have mercy on him,
and to our God, for he will freely pardon.

Jeremiah 29:13 -- You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart.

Acts 17:26-27 -- From one man he made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.

Hebrews 11:6 -- And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

 

[johnp.]

...thats the whole problem with calvinism. If what you say is true then nothing really matters.

That would be to misunderstand Calvinism James. Jesus said that if one loved Him one will obey Him. He says go and make disciples, if one loves Jesus one will go.
1CO 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles and do not even deserve to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God. 10 But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me. 11 Whether, then, it was I or they, this is what we preach, and this is what you believed.

Paul says it is by the grace of God we are what we are and it has an effect. Paul is a Calvinist.
1 Cor 1:30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God--that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: "Let him who boasts boast in the Lord."

It is because of him and since it is because of Him He has an effect on us in that He changes our nature to one of love, replacing the old emnity with joy as He takes up residency in His Temple, us.

john.

 

[partialrapture]

But if I am one of the elect then your wasting your time God will give me the repentance, and faith
And if I am not on of the elect then you are really wasting your time...

Better yet how do you know your saved? the elect of God? Is it because you have not blasphemed the Holy Ghost yet? Or are you sure your one of the elect because your still holding positive thoughts about God and his law and your trying... ah.. I think I am ok... I haven't killed anybody, I am definitely better the the world... does that make one the elect of God?

God has chosen from the foundation of the world all who will be saved because he foreknew who would meet the condition to be elected (saved).
that condition is belief

1Peter 1:2 Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by partialrapture:
But if I am one of the elect then your wasting your time God will give me the repentance, and faith
And if I am not on of the elect then you are really wasting your time...

Time spent in obedience to God's command to preach the gospel to every creature is not wasted. If you have a complaint concerning election then you should take it up with Him.

The elect will believe. Those who believe are the elect. There's no reason to make it harder than that.

1 Peter 1:2 - foreknowledge of what?

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by James_Newman:
thats the whole problem with calvinism. If what you say is true then nothing really matters.

God has revealed that He will save many who don't deserve salvation and who would never turn from their sin on their own. How can that not matter?

 

[partialrapture]

foreknowledge of who would believe...
he foreknew I whould believe so he therefore elected me to be saved
"elect according tothe foreknowledge of God"

ELECT', v.t. [L. electus, from eligo; e or ex and lego; Gr. to choose.]
1. Properly, to pick out; to select from among two or more, that which is preferred.

an important thing to know is that God would like to elect everyone one the earth but not all are meeting the condition to be elected and that is believe on Jesus Christ

 

[partialrapture]

Originally posted by whatever:
God has revealed that He will save many who don't deserve salvation and who would never turn from their sin on their own. How can that not matter?

1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Peter 3:9 ...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He says here that he will save all...?
I hope you dont mean be "will save many" that God does not desire all to be saved

"will" in these two verses can only mean desires

WILL,
5. Disposition; inclination; desire. What is your will, Sir?

I do agree that not all are going to be saved but its because they do not believe

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by partialrapture:
foreknowledge of who would believe...
he foreknew I whould believe so he therefore elected me to be saved
"elect according tothe foreknowledge of God"

ELECT', v.t. [L. electus, from eligo; e or ex and lego; Gr. to choose.]
1. Properly, to pick out; to select from among two or more, that which is preferred.

an important thing to know is that God would like to elect everyone one the earth but not all are meeting the condition to be elected and that is believe on Jesus Christ

PR,

We agree on the meaning of election. We disagree on the reason for election. Where does that Bible mention "foreknowledge of who would believe"? The Bible often speaks of people whom God foreknew. It never, to my knowledge, speaks of God foreknowing "who would believe". Please correct me if I'm wrong. I think you are making a common assumption here, but it's one that cannot be proven.

The same goes for your "conditional election" theory. I don't think you can prove it from Scripture. Would you like to try?

 

[whatever]

Originally posted by partialrapture:

Originally posted by whatever:
God has revealed that He will save many who don't deserve salvation and who would never turn from their sin on their own. How can that not matter?

1Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

2Peter 3:9 ...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

He says here that he will save all...?
I hope you dont mean be "will save many" that God does not desire all to be saved

"will" in these two verses can only mean desires

WILL,
5. Disposition; inclination; desire. What is your will, Sir?

I do agree that not all are going to be saved but its because they do not believe

I haven't said that God does not desire all to be saved. Please, let's talk about what I say, and not what I don't say.

We agree that God wills for all to be saved. We agree that not all will be saved. We probably agree (correct me if I'm wrong) that God could save everyone if He chose to do so, but He does not choose to do so. So, the point of contention is this - why does God not choose to save everyone, even though He could, and even though He wants everyone to be saved? I'll give you the first crack at answering if you want to.

 

[johnp.]

Hello partialrapture.

Faith comes by hearing, Rom 10:16, and those that God has elected will hear His voice through us. We are just calling the sheep not trying to save reprobates.
Also, Jesus said, "Go and make disciples." And that is what we are doing, it's called obedience.

If a person is not elect I still waste no time as I am living in obedience.
ISA 55:11 so is my word that goes out from my mouth: It will not return to me empty, but will accomplish what I desire and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.
One way or another.

Better yet how do you know your saved? the elect of God?

I know I am saved because I believe in Jesus and have called on His Name. Why should I doubt His word?
Joel 2:32 And everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved... Why do you not believe this?

Is it because you have not blasphemed the Holy Ghost yet?

1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love.
My life is not spent in fear as that would negate my faith. I believe. If I depended on my faith then fear is all I would have but I am kept. ...To those who have been called, who are loved by God the Father and kept by Jesus Christ... Jude 1-2.

Or are you sure your one of the elect because your still holding positive thoughts about God and his law and your trying... ah.. I think I am ok...

Er..., well to be honest with you I find that my faith is certain and secure, how's yours? Do you depend on your faith or do you trust in Christ? Do you hold the Father's hand or does He hold yours? Can you say, "being confident of this, that he who began a good work in me will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." Php 1:6, because I can. Can you?

Since my confidence rests in Christ then I have no worries about my future. He died for my sins.

I haven't killed anybody, I am definitely better the the world... does that make one the elect of God?

Like my brother King David do you mean? What makes me one God's elect is that God has elected me. That is what election means. Chosen before the creation of the world. Rom 9:11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand:

in order that God's purpose in election might stand Esau was consigned to Hell and I was consigned to suffer salvation. Don't shoot the messengers.

God has chosen from the foundation of the world all who will be saved because he foreknew who would meet the condition to be elected (saved).

It is by grace one is saved, Eph 2:8, not by works. Here's a message from my Father, ISA 28:13 So then, the word of the LORD to them will become: Do and do, do and do, rule on rule, rule on rule; a little here, a little there-- so that they will go and fall backward, be injured and snared and captured.

Your belief in God's foreknowledge is wrong. EPH 1:11 In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will...

1 Peter 1:3 and into an inheritance that can never perish, spoil or fade--kept in heaven for you...

I am a kept man.

john.

 

[johnp.]

2Peter 3:9 ...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If God is not willing to send many to Hell why did He create it? If God is not willing to send many to Hell why did He create them? He did create them knowing they would go to Hell didn't He? If His foreknowledge extends to those He knows will save themselves then it must extend to those who will not. Since He created them then logic alone tells us that 2 Peter 3:9 does not mean He is not willing for any to go to Hell. He must be willing or He would not have created them or it.

2 Peter 3:9 talks of the sheep yet to be born.


john.

 

[reformedbeliever]

Amen John!

 

[StraightAndNarrow]

Originally posted by johnp.:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />2Peter 3:9 ...not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

If God is not willing to send many to Hell why did He create it? If God is not willing to send many to Hell why did He create them? He did create them knowing they would go to Hell didn't He? If His foreknowledge extends to those He knows will save themselves then it must extend to those who will not. Since He created them then logic alone tells us that 2 Peter 3:9 does not mean He is not willing for any to go to Hell. He must be willing or He would not have created them or it.

2 Peter 3:9 talks of the sheep yet to be born.


john. </font>[/QUOTE]How did you come to that conclusion? Do you have other scripture to back up that assertion? On its face this verse doesn't say that.

 

[johnp.]

Hello StraightAndNarrow.

What conclusion? Back up what assertion? The verse doesn't say what?

If God is not willing to send many to Hell why did He create it?

If God is not willing to send many to Hell why did He create them?

He did create them knowing they would go to Hell didn't He?

john.

 

[OldRegular]

Helen

If you Arminians would only answer the question why some people believe while others do not it would solve a lot of problems. But the truth is that you can not.