God Got The Memo

if God isn't actively part of our salvation, theres no salvation.

 

He may be involved in our salvation. But man is not a robot forced to believe God. God doesn't give him the faith to believe neither does he give him the repentance to believe. If man doesn't have the faith, that is choose on his own to believe, and likewise to repent (the two are connected with each other), then how can he be saved. Why do you believe that God forces salvation on some; and damnation on others?

 

You get agitated very easily Rippon. If your model of salvation via Calvinism is akin to God and robots, and you can't refute it, but only get upset, angry, and inasmuch yell out insults on the internet, you have lost any form of debate before you have even started. I suppose we may as well close this thread since you have already admitted defeat. Are you a coward unwilling to intelligently refute my post, or do you know from experience that every time I give that analogy that you have never successfully refuted it yet? No wonder you are all agitated! Ready to concede defeat now?

 

You now have permission to get off your high horse, and don't fall when you jump.
You know I am not a Calvinist, though I have been accused of being one by many others. However just because I am not a Calvinist in no way gives you the right to tell me that my remarks are blasphemous. I have said nothing blasphemous, or even contrary to the Bible. Note this and note it well:

BEING AGAINST THE DOCTRINES OF CALVIN IS NOT THE SAME AS BEING AGAINST THE DOCTRINES OF THE BIBLE

You seem to equate the two. The Bible and "The Institutes of Calvin are not one and the same thing. The sooner you learn that the better off you will be.

 

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Salvation is predicated on belief; one's own belief. The choice is one's own. When presented with the gospel he may either reject or accept the gospel. God does not force him to do either one. Nor did God program him as a robot that at a certain time he would run a program that would compel this computerized man to either accept or reject Christ according to the compterized plan of God.
He made man in his own image and likeness with a will to choose between good and evil; to reject or accept Christ.

 

I have not squirmed away from anything. My statements have been clear and plain. Now if you somehow have misinterpreted in the light of your indoctrinated Calvinism, then you have a problem. I have said nothing heretical or blasphemous, and if you, upon review of my posts, cannot find anything as such, then an apology is in order.

 

You quoted yourself. So what! What you find objectionable is the words that you have said about me. You didn't quote me; you quoted you. You are trying to put words into my mouth, that I never said. Did I say something "non-Calvinist" that offended your sensibilities?? And then you got angry and called it blasphemy? Is that what really happened? But you can't point to anything that I said that is unsciptural or even close to blasphemous, can you? Like I said, I think an apology is in order.

 

In his 2nd pastoral letter to Timothy, his protege, Paul talks about certain individuals who may have opposing views to the ones that Timothy has. Paul tells them to patiently instruct these folks. His words in the NIV reads:

Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth, 2Timothy 2:25.

In the KJV, it goes thus:

In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; 2 Timothy 2:25.

And finally, in the Revised Standard Version, the same verse is rendered as:

correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant that they will repent and come to know the truth,

Now, which truth ?

Whether it be doctrinal truth for those who already profess to name the LORD, or whether it be soteriological truth as to whether there are many ways to salvation, or just one which is the Lord Jesus Christ and no other, the fact remains that Paul, in this instance, names the direction from which repentance (a change of mind) comes, and that is, God.

If it is simply doctrinal truth, and one argues that God corrects His children in these doctrinal truths, and grants them the courage and humility to change their minds about what they so firmly believed, then wouldn't it be much more important for God to make sure that those whom He loved from the foundation of the world come to Him, if and when He so grants them the opportunity to hear the gospel in their lifetime, and to know Him as their sole and only source of salvation, both in the eternal and the timely sense ?

Both faith and repentance come from one source, and that source is the Father of Lights.

 

I posited on another thread that perhaps God was so involved with your salvation that you were His "direct descendant" and not adopted at all. Remember that?

What you seemed to be saying -- and are here -- was that you were born the proverbial "sliver spoon" in your mouth! God, indeed, GAVE you everything. You're like the "prodigal son's" big brother, aren't you? Maybe you thought that just "hangin' around" saved you (Did you, perhaps, think as many of your pursuasion do that you were "saved" by infant baptism?).

Anyway, it certainly developed in Luke 15's proverb that the elder son didn't love the father, didn't it.

skypair

 

I don't know of any non-Calvinist that would object to that statemnent. Let me put it into a better context for you:

God may be involved in our salvation, but we are the ones that must make the choice whether or not to choose him as Saviour. The choice is still ours. No one forces us to make a decision.

The statement is the same. It is not blasphemous. It is what any non-Calvinist would believe.

 

Ro. 3:11b
There is none who seeks after God.

God doesn't force damnation on anyone. Each person deserves it on their own. God in His mercy and grace choses to rescue some.


Mk 13:20b
but for the elect’s sake, whom He chose, He shortened the days.

Eph 1:4&5
4just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before Him in love, 5 having predestined us to adoption as sons by Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will

2Thess. 2:13&14
13But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ

Ro. 1:6
6among whom you also are the called of Jesus Christ;
7To all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints


Ro.8:30
30Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified

too many more to keep going, gotta go rest

 

Really? People deserve to be created a certain way, and then have to suffer because of it? How is this not forcing damnation on them?

 

They are just robots Webdog.
Some are pre-programmed to go to Hell;
and others are pre-programmed to go Heaven.
No one has any choice in the matter.
God's computer has already set things up.