God of the Bible?

Some have that god as their God. I would ask them questions like: Why pray? Why sing? Why give thanks? Why follow God if everything is predeternined. No point in reading their Bible. It won't do any good because according to them there is nothing they can do except be a robot without a chance of repentance. If God has predetermined every move and choice then why even live and not take your life. It is a shorter distance to eternity.

I do not know one hyper-Calvinist who lives like one.

 

No, it isn't accurate. It is not what the Bible teaches, and therefore, not what Calvinism teaches. The sinner does not want to be healed. God is not withholding something the sinner desires. Whosoever will may be saved; the sinner won't, and therefore won't be saved. Your analogy falls apart on so many levels.

GB repeats a classic distortion. We do those things he asks about because God is worthy of it. We pray because we are Calvinists. If you aren't a Calvinist, it is illogical to pray since you are asking God to be a respecter of persons, and to do the very thing you decry him doing. That doesn't make sense.

This problems go away simply by believing God's word.

 

I get a kick out of all these "Analogies" of man being sick, "little babies" falling over a waterfall, miracle medicine that can heal whatever STUPID desease that is killing them...

They all TOTALLY misunderstand the one and most important thing...

THE HEART ! The patient, babies.. etc are always portrayed as WANTING, DESIRING and being innocent people longing for salvation... UNBIBLICAL.... This is humanism at it's best! (worst)...

Man (biblically) is at enminty with God. He goes against God. He hates the "medicine" the Doctor has for him !! HE WANTS A SECOND OPINION from the doctor named Satan who tells him, he's o.k. and gives him a clean bill of health and the patient BELIEVES him!

 

Romans 3:3
"For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?"

and from verse 5
"Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man.)

and verses 10 and following ...

"As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one: there is none that understandth, , there is none that seeketh after God. They are wll gone out of hte way, they are together bedcome unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one."

Reading through that entire chapter, nothing could be clearer ...

God does not forbid salavation to ANYONE who desires it. But don't you see? WE DON'T WANT IT! We're revelling in our sin ... we love our wretchedness. We are haters of God and lovers of self. We are children of the devil.

Until he gives us that desire--until he gives us the faith. If you study it out, you'll find that the scriptures indicate that this faith is of Christ--it's not OUR faith, but Christ's faith given to us.

 

In a microcosim Margo, it's like Arminians NOT WANTING Calvinism ! The Holy Spirit has got to change them...

We are all born Arminianist... then God gives us grace and we become Calvinists ~ C.H. Spurgeon

 

The first part is true, we are all born Arminians, and are even so as a new Christian who has not been brainwashed by Calvinistic dogma. Then, its NOT God's grace that makes anyone become a Calvinist, as God cannot lead anyone into error. No, they follow their blind leaders who make them believe that Calvinism is the ONLY WAY, which is no different from the Jehovah's Witnesses, who think they will be the only ones in heaven.

 

A good example is in Matthew's Gospel, where we have Jesus preaching to the "multitudes" (chapter 11). He then goes on to make them all an offer, "come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (v.28)

Unless one were to go to Jesus, they would not get the rest for their sould that He promised them.

 

"The whosoever will be saved, the sinner won't, and therefore won't be saved".

First of all the "whosoever" isn't there in the Greek in John 3.16 secondly this is a simple statement and does no harm to Calvinism... Whoever believes will be saved, and those who don't, won't.... You seem to think Calvinist's don't believe this... but we do. Everybody has the choice to believe that's all that is being said.

 

You correctly state that the analogy is perverse, disgusting and monstrous. You should have added that it is totally false.

Instead of dumping on those who believe that salvation is the work of God, not of man, why not spend your time trying to refute the Scripture which teach this truth.

John 6:37-40

John 6:44, 45

John 6:64, 65

John 10:26-29

Romans 8:28-30

Ephesians 1:3-7

Ephesians 2:1-8

1 Peter 2:9

John 3:19

 

i find it rather humorous that the arminians attack Calvinism calling it 'the reason of men' yet rely on this very reason to refute Calvinism. Why don't you show us some scripture references instead of backwards analogies that have absolutely nothing to do with the doctrines of grace- and everything to do with an obstinate rejection of God's truth?

 

Whetstone, Calvinists are like robots, they have been programmed to believe the 5 points at all costs, questioning nothing, believing all, regardless whether what you do believe is Biblical or not. So, when we give Scripture showing that you are wrong, you twist them to your own conclusions. You see, you guys have these notions, and everything has to fit, even though most of Calvinism is completely unbiblical.

 

THAT'S RIDICULOUS.
I'd never even heard of the 5 points of calvinism until my home church was a without a pastor back in 1998.

Someone told me about the whole debate, free will vs. election and what not ...

I was like, 'people really believe that?'

I already knew what's taught in the '5 points,' but had never heard of Calvinism.

 

THAT'S RIDICULOUS.
I'd never even heard of the 5 points of calvinism until my home church was a without a pastor back in 1998.

Someone told me about the whole debate, free will vs. election and what not ...

I was like, 'people really believe that?'

I already knew what's taught in the '5 points,' but had never heard of Calvinism. [/QB]</font>[/QUOTE]What's ridiculous? Scan the posts of the Calvinists, like Whetstone, Larry, etc and you will see that I am right

 

ROFL ... they believe what I believe.

I'm trying to tell ya ... the '5 points' come from scripture. I believed them before I knew anything about calvinism.



And if you think scanning a few posts would change me to believe what I think is contradictory to scripture ...

 

I'm somewhat insulted that you think I'm dense enough to change my mind by reading a few posts by people who have been aruging in here back and forth for ages ... regardless of who's right and who's wrong.

 

Well, if you think that the 5 points come from Scripture, the I suggest that you have missed it!