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God's Indisputable Sovereignty

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Rippon, Mar 30, 2006.

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  1. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Mt. Zion Bible Church puts out great tracts through their Chapel Library . One of their best is with the title of the subject head . I will give some extracts every now and then . There is no copyright or single author cited , occasionally some writers are mentioned by name , and tons of Scripture are used .

    The only reason anyone believes in the absolute universal sovereignty of God is because it is revealed in the Bible . No other book in the world discloses this unqualified truth . Why this should be so is simple . The Book called the Bible is distinctly and exclusively the Word and Work of God . All other books are more or less words and works of men . And further : the cause of anyone's faith in the unmodified " Sovereignty of God " as revealed in the Bible is that it is divinely given unto them to believe it . That is , the gracious Sovereignty of God makes them able and willing to believe it ( John 3:27 ) .
    In view of the reality that this truth is most distinctly and most certainly set forth throughout the Bible:-- the fact that men , religious or irreligious , oppose and seek to distort it to suit their feelings and fancies , is one of the best testimonies to the truth of this doctrine , though they mean it not so . This glorious " Sovereignty of God " which they so spleen against has not as yet condescended to give them that grace which is needed to humble their pride and make them willing and able to heartily believe " that which is written . " As the Scripture declares , " Thy people shall be willing in the day of Thy power " ( Psa 110:3 )
     
    #1 Rippon, Mar 30, 2006
  2. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Chosen : Selected from a number , picked out , elect, choice ( Webster )

    Elect : To determine in favor of , to designate , choose or select as an object of mercy or favor , predestinated in the divine councils , one chosen or set apart , one chosen or designated by God for salvation , collectively , the saved ( Webster ). This election is an act of distinguishing love , of divine sovereignty , eternal , absolute and irrevocable , personal ( Cruden )

    Election : Divine choice , predetermination of God , by which persons are distinguished as objects of mercy , become subjects of grace , are sanctified and prepared for heaven , the elect ( Webster )

    Calling, Called : To designate or characterize as , to affirm to be , Divine summons , state of being divinely called ( Webster )

    Appointed : To fix , to settle , to establish or fix by decree or decision ( Webster )

    Ordained : To decree , to appoint , to arrange , to prepare ( Webster )

    Predestinated or Predestination : The decree of God by which He has , from eternity unchangeably , appointed or determined whatever comes to pass . It is used particularly to denote the preordination of men to everlasting happiness or misery and is a part of the unchangeable plan of the Divine government ; in other words , the unchangeable purpose of an unchangeable God ( Webster )

    Sovereign : supreme in power , independent of and unlimited by any other ( Webster )
     
    #2 Rippon, Mar 31, 2006
  3. Satartia

    Satartia New Member

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    What is your question? This sure looks like most of the other stuff you post.
     
    #3 Satartia, Mar 31, 2006
  4. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Every post or thread doesn't have to be a question.
    I believe he is demonstrating the true meaning of some words some try and change the meaning of till they mean what they prefer they did.
    And a fine statement it is too.
     
    #4 donnA, Mar 31, 2006
  5. Timtoolman

    Timtoolman New Member

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    This is calvinist saying that anyone who disagrees how God should be soveriegn is wrong. HOwever it does not prove so biblically. Its a nice calvinist speech, nothing more.
     
    #5 Timtoolman, Mar 31, 2006
  6. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I'd like the definition of the word 'spleen'.
     
    #6 James_Newman, Mar 31, 2006
  7. whatever

    whatever New Member

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    a large dark-red oval organ on the left side of the body between the stomach and the diaphragm; produces cells involved in immune responses
     
    #7 whatever, Mar 31, 2006
  8. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob New Member

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    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #8 Brother Bob, Mar 31, 2006
  9. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    IMO that says it all. I know it says it all in my case. Until I was humbled by God, I most certainly felt superior to unbelievers, though I never would have admitted that, because I didn't want to think about it that way. But deep down, I believed there was something in me that enabled me to make the right choice that they either didn't have, or didn't want to have.

    I thank God He made me fail at trying to write my apologetics piece on free will.
     
    #9 npetreley, Mar 31, 2006
  10. James_Newman

    James_Newman New Member

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    I can't imagine an apologetics argument based on irresistable grace would fare much better.
     
    #10 James_Newman, Mar 31, 2006
  11. bapmom

    bapmom New Member

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    npetreley,

    it says it all in your particular case. Your experience in this does not negate nor prove any Calvinistic viewpoint from a Biblical perspective.

    You needed to be humbled....ok, Im glad that you heeded that humbling and moved on....but that doesn't mean that Calvinism is correct and it doesn't mean that those who believe people have a free will are wrong. Nor does it mean that because I believe God gave me the choice in the matter that I am therefore prideful and think I am better than those who are unsaved.
     
    #11 bapmom, Mar 31, 2006
  12. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    I believe in the sovereignty of God. I notice that you use the phrase "absolute universal sovereignty of God." What is the difference in this and the sovereignty of God?
     
    #12 swaimj, Mar 31, 2006
  13. genesis12

    genesis12 Member

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    What's a guy (or gal) called that isn't a 5-point Calvinist and isn't from Armenia? (that's a joke: Armenia. Don't get on my case, ok?)

    Seriously - Where is the dividing line between full-blown Ar·min·i·an·ism and TULIP Calvinism?
     
    #13 genesis12, Mar 31, 2006
  14. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    4-pointers are called Amyrauldians after a man named Amyrauld. Typicaly, 4-pointers reject the "L".

    You might be desiring a good theological treatment of your question, but IMO the "U" is the most important line of division between the systems, and second to that is the order of salvation, and after that the order of decrees.
     
    #14 J.D., Mar 31, 2006
  15. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Total depravity or radical corruption as it is sometimes called may be the critical issue here . Many give a nod to it , but in practice deny it .
     
    #15 Rippon, Mar 31, 2006
  16. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    Ah npet you said it so well

    "IMO that says it all. I know it says it all in my case. Until I was humbled by God, I most certainly felt superior to unbelievers, though I never would have admitted that, because I didn't want to think about it that way. But deep down, I believed there was something in me that enabled me to make the right choice that they either didn't have, or didn't want to have."

    To parphrase Pink: "The objective of the man of God is to drive the pride of man into a utter state of dispair". I like to say that man's pride must be ground to powder and hurled away by a strong wind. Only then can he truly worship God.

    I once preached the gospel of conditional regeneration. I can't believe it now that I ever did that. It clangs in my ears like a foul church bell. I am completely ashamed that I would ever have believed such a thing, that Almighty God was depended upon my faith for the accomplishment of His work. He not only saved me, but He brought me out of that darkness also. Praise His Name!
     
    #16 J.D., Mar 31, 2006
  17. JackRUS

    JackRUS New Member

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    This is the problem with Calvinists. (Well, the main one anyway).

    Calvinism is all they ever want to discuss. They are obsessed with it. And it appears, with it alone.

    Why is that?
     
    #17 JackRUS, Mar 31, 2006
  18. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Regarding the use of the phrase " universal absolute sovereignty of God " -- that is to make it abundantly clear that the Lord is indeed the Lord .Sometimes saying the sovereignty of God doesn't register with some people . Francis Schaeffer used to use the term " brutal facts " , instead of just saying " facts " . He tried to hammer home the truthfulness of biblical truths . In today's world you can't be too careful with definitions . I mean in this environment when someone uses a form of the word " heretic " as an aside , and then doesn't want that to be developed -- that's a problem . Definitions and meanings matter . Am I really clear ?
     
    #18 Rippon, Mar 31, 2006
  19. J.D.

    J.D. Active Member
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    In my case, guilty as charged! But I would say that the large majority of calvinists are not as "obsessed" as myself. I think we baptist calvinists are more interested in the soteriological issues at hand than say the presbyterian and reformed calvinists. But that's just a blind guess. Baptist calvinists are inter-mingled with agressive anti-calvinists in our household of faith.

    And, being a Calvinist, what I really believe is that God has put this passion in me and Calvibap and Rippon and Npet and some others, that His truth would have a voice on this forum!
     
    #19 J.D., Apr 1, 2006
  20. swaimj

    swaimj <img src=/swaimj.gif>

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    If God is universaly, absolutely sovereign, does that mean that man is universally, absolutely, a puppet?
     
    #20 swaimj, Apr 1, 2006
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