Featured God's love question

Great question Judith .... looking forward to how some respond. As a side note, nice to see you back. :wavey:

 

I can only give you my thoughts on the matter, which stem from a theological system in which all have the choice to accept or reject God, so many on this board disagree... We see a God revealed in scripture, especially in the character of Jesus Christ, who loves man, and was willing to die for man, but who does not force man into salvation. He does not irresistibly pull man to repentance. Instead, He commands us to repent, and to keep the commandments. As the Lord said to Israel in Deuteronomy 30, the commandment is not far off, or hidden; but in keeping the commandment, the Lord has laid before us life and good, or death and evil, depending on our willingness to keep the commandment.

John seems to be saying that God loved the world enough that He gave Himself, the Son, to be the propitiation for all the world. In 2:2, if John is referring to the Elect in saying "not for ours only," then who is he referring to with the statement "but also for the sins of the whole world?"

Peter continues the theme that Christ did die for all, and was the propitiation for all, but he opens the door to man's ability to accept or reject Christ on the terms of the gospel. Here Peter mentions the false teachers who are so common, but he says that they "[deny] the Lord that bought them." If the Lord bought them, that seems that would make them Elect, as some Predestinarians are adamant that only the Elect were paid for on the cross. Yet Peter says they deny the Lord. How can that be, except man have the ability to choose right or wrong?

This, to me, is one of the quintessential verses supporting man having a choice. Jesus says He will knock. It is then up to the man to open the door, and allow Him in.

 

Five Point folks (FPF) would tell you that it means not only the Jews but to the Gentiles as well but only as a proffered item.

If I haven't truly represented the FPF, please correct me.

In the first place this is not fair because they dump on us when we make the distinction between Jew and Gentile but are willing to use the concept when it serves their own purpose.

Apart from that this would be a relatively acceptable exegesis.
I say "relatively" because neither Jews or Gentiles are specifically mentioned in this book.
I say "would be" because John tells us who the "whole world" is in another verse of this very epistle:

1 John 5:19 And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lieth in wickedness (literally the wicked one).

So, in the 1st Epistle of John, the "whole world" is that class of people who are under the control of the evil one (everyone except the children of God). The distinction is not between Jew and Gentile but between who it is we belong to.

And yes I realize that most FPF support the preaching of the gospel attempting to persuade others to believe on Christ just as Paul did.

Acts 19:26 Moreover ye see and hear, that not alone at Ephesus, but almost throughout all Asia, this Paul hath persuaded and turned away much people, saying that they be no gods, which are made with hands:

Also my son is an FPF preacher so I know whereof I speak.


HankD

 

Apologies, Judith. Would you like me to delete my previous post? I believe I still have the option to edit the post, albeit for a brief time.

 

That God so loved the world is simply a Bible Basic.

John the Baptist reinforced the simplicity of God's love in saying...


John 1:29

King James Version (KJV)

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.


He does not prophesy that the sins of those who read the Bible will be taken away, but that the Gift has come to the world as a whole, and that opportunity is presented to every man and woman.

Salvation has always been about obedience to the Word of God, which is the Gospel in every Age. IN this Age we have the specific Gospel of Jesus Christ, which is the unveiling of what the Word of God has progressively revealed over the course of History, as attested by the Writer of Hebrews, and in fact important enough that he begins His Epistle making this point:


Hebrews 1

King James Version (KJV)

1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,

2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;


We have to be careful in not imposing into Election any semblance of effort or accomplishment in those who believe to the saving of the soul. The Lord did not look into world history in advance and select those He knew would respond in faith, but quite the contrary, He looked into the History of Man and saw that no man would, of himself, have the ability to do the first thing by which He could justify that person and grant Eternal Life.

That is the heart of the very Gospel of Christ, that man is sinful, separated from God, and not only bereft of the means of saving himself...but in opposition to being saved.

Only through the combination of the revelation of the Gospel of Christ and the Ministry of the Comforter do we see man eternally redeemed, which redemption was unveiled by God in Christ, Who was God.

God provided Himself a Lamb, because among mankind there was not one, not a single solitary individual, who could accomplish that which only God could, and that is...saving us.


God bless.

 

Not sure how you miss the fact that Christ dying for all men, and all men being made aware of that fact...doesn't answer the question.

Maybe you could explain that to me.

On second thought, never mind.

I would just point out that within the answer there is, in case you didn't notice, also mention of the false premise that the question hinges on.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled posting.


God bless.

 

That is the false premise.

Read my post again.

Notice the part about Christ being the Lamb of God which taketh away the sins of the world.


God bless.

 

Beloved let us love one another for love is of God, and everyone that loveth is born of God and knoweth God.

This is a love that changes the heart!... It is not a natural love that we have but a spiritual love for God and each other. To me the love of God as well as the justice of God is beyond human comprehension.

I would change it to "loves every person who reads it" instead of "is in love with every person who reads it." I would change that as to every person that reads it and lives it!... The OT Israelites knew the scriptures but many times they did not follow it... God intervened at times and enacted justice even though he loved them. In the NT the bureans who heard Paul preached searched the scriptures daily to see if what he said was true. We who believe , believe, read, and follow... That is my biblical understanding!... Brother Glen

 

I see. Sorry, thought it was a question you sincerely wanted answered.

I am not sure why I thought that.

On the contrary, those who hold to limited atonement cannot properly answer the question, except for those who do not want to acknowledge that God did in fact so love the world, not the Elect, but the world, that He sent His Son to die in their stead.

I understand now, lol.

If you say so. I thought it was a pretty answer though I might take issue with...

...as it is clear that God loved the world as a whole, sent the Comforter to the world as a whole, died for the world as a whole...and all this before men were saved. That love extends to prior to salvation in individuals and to suggest that God's love favors any particular person on a salvific level suggests respect of persons, which does not have a consistency with what Scripture tells us about God.

There is no debate.

We are saved because of God's love.

Not because we are Elect, but because we are loved.


1 John 4:19

King James Version (KJV)

19 We love him, because he first loved us.


But I can understand not wanting to be interrupted by an opposing view, so I will bow out.


God bless.

 

The saving Love of God is only found In Christ. Romans 5 Rom 8

It is a covenant love. Jer 31

The love of God is only for those who believe.

The wrath of God abides upon the unbeliever.
God is good to all men

God only savingly loves the elect IN Christ. Jesus died for them and turns away the wrath from them alone. He is the propitiation,

Gods love finds the elect all over the world.

 

They only can answer the question...You cannot/

Only the elect are saved...the whole world does not get saved.

As the atonement was perfect and accomplished redemption in the stead of its objects , o0nly the elect could be it's objects as they alone are saved






..

Well now...scripture suggests otherwise;
2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

Only when you miss the truth ...then there is.

wrong...all men would be saved then,,,,wrong