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'Government persecuting' jailed creation evangelist
- Thread starter Jedi Knight
- Start date
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Hovind is a tax cheat. This is not persecution. It is enforcement.
I really like his videos but when I heard about the tax stuff...made me sick at my stomach.
BigBossman
Active Member
While do what I have to do to make sure I pay my taxes, I don't regard tax evasion as a criminal offense.
"Give to Ceasar what is his" ...... even though "Ceasar" may be taking more than he is supposed to.
If you can find a way to ensure that "Ceasar" gets less, go for it.
I think that this is nothing more than a way for them to put him behind bars. Kind of like what happened with Al Capone. The government could find any evidence, so they put him away on tax evasion charges.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that Al Capone was a criminal, but not because of tax evasion. I don't regard Hovind as a criminal.
"Give to Ceasar what is his" ...... even though "Ceasar" may be taking more than he is supposed to.
If you can find a way to ensure that "Ceasar" gets less, go for it.
I think that this is nothing more than a way for them to put him behind bars. Kind of like what happened with Al Capone. The government could find any evidence, so they put him away on tax evasion charges.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that Al Capone was a criminal, but not because of tax evasion. I don't regard Hovind as a criminal.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
It doesn't matter what any of us think. Statutes determine what is criminal and what is not.
I pay my taxes. I think everyone else, including "Doctor Dino" should pay theirs as well.
BigBossman
Active Member
I thought you just said that it doesn't matter what any of us think.
Tax evasion is illegal and so he is a criminal.
Must not be very smart to think he could get away with what he did.
Must not be very smart to think he could get away with what he did.
Magnetic Poles
New Member
Context, my friend. It doesn't matter what we think about who is a criminal. However, i AM entitled to my opinions. You are also entitled to my opinions. :laugh:
If some of you guys spent as much time THINKING as trying to find inconsistencies, you might come up with something good. :thumbsup:
BigBossman
Active Member
Fair enough. I always expect to hear people weigh in. I'm entitled to everyone's opinion(s), not just yours. Of course, I have my own too.
I agree. The article says.
But Eric Hovind acknowledges his father has espoused principles and beliefs shared by leading tax resisters.
In 1996, Kent Hovind tried to file for bankruptcy to avoid paying federal income taxes. He told a judge at a hearing he did not believe the United States, the Internal Revenue Service and the U.S. Attorney's Office "have jurisdiction in this matter."
Kent Hovind has stated he believes the Bible "teaches us to obey the authority over us."
But he contends the "IRS is not the authority over me any more than the government of Japan is."
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However much any of us including me would like to stop paying taxes that constitutes a crime. This man is not being persecuted because of his religion. He is a tax cheat. Period. Eventually they get caught.
windcatcher
New Member
As a person, personally unacquainted with the Hovinds, except through the publishing of some of his films, books, and attended his presentation at a local church for a portion of a week of meetings.... I have no particular interest in picking sides.
His prosecution took place locally and was published in headlines in the local paper. One thing I found in trying to follow the information regarding his trial and the evidence....it seems his defense was limited repeatedly from presenting their own evidence, testimony, evidence of law, and precedents. I don't think the jury had a full representation of the case with which to make a judgement.
For one thing..... I'm no tax protestor.... but I agree.... no ministry should be forced into the position or prosecuted because they refuse to be an agent of the government or the IRS. If you employ people as a part of the ministry, and they have full understanding that you are not acting as an agent of the state and that they are fully responsible for reporting their income and paying taxes.... and they do..... then where was the harm done? Just because the IRS wants you to act as their agent for the collecting of quarterly taxes.... where does the law require that you must do this or else be held as a criminal? It was a trumped up charge, enforced for the sake of making an example of him, using laws which were intended to be used for enforcment against drug/crime/black markets and money laundering...... not for enforcement against otherwise lawfully abiding citizens. What about the banks reporting laws regarding amounts of $10,000 of cash withdrawal or deposit? I'm sure that there are much larger corporations where this is a daily feature of their transactions.... yet the legitimacy of their function is not questioned nor reported, because the efficiency of their economy function and the legitmacy of their business is not in question. Florida is a right to work state....if I understand this correctly..... which means, if one wishes to take it to the extreme.... a person could by a day to day hire.
The original IRS laws did not apply to every kind of employment income...... only that which occurred through the use of government property to create income or employed people in the government. Most private companies and businesses do not meet the requirements for manditory requirement of withholding income tax or even being charged income tax. ....... But like the Browns asked in court "Show me the law" and the courts refused to require the law to be exposed and examined.
Just because people are convicted in a court..... doesn't always mean that they have committed a crime. Not all law is good law. Not all evidence is presented.... only that which the court allows can be presented... either for defense or for prosecution.
Here in NorthWest Florida, Christians are being confronted by serious attacks on our freedom of expression in the public arena. Ken Hovind, was making very good arguments and easily presentable.... to those who, in education, were having to present text books full of evolution to students.... but who also felt there were unanswered questions and an absence of inquiry which stiffles scientific inquiry ...... because of its labeling as the 'creationist view'.... which is like saying 'Christian viewpoint'. His material presented easy ways of introducing questions and exposing errors in the evoluntionary theory or the evidences still published as current in text books inspite of their official and recognized exposure in professional cicles as fraud. Although these positions could be presented in such a way as to keep open the question of evolution as opposed to securing it as a fact.... without introducing the Bible or Christianity..... there are some people living in our communities who are highly sensitive to anything in structure which breaks with their religion of humanism or atheism.
I pray for the Hovinds..... and hope the Lord will somehow vindicate them.
I'm not saying that they are perfect...... I just don't believe they've committed a crime.
Completely putting the creation/evolution argument aside, Kent Hovind is clearly a charlatain anf fraud. Not only is he a self-evident tax cheat, but he's also a fraud abotu his education. His supposed doctorate is fake, having obtained it from a degree mill (aka, pay us x dollars, and you get a degree). He never wrote a doctoral thesis as a condition for his fake degree.
And then there are the numerous claims he's made about his so-caled museum. Just for starters, he claimed to have on display a "giant" legbone, as evidence for claiming that giant humans existed in the past as per biblical account. In reality, though, the legbone was a 2x scale resin copy of a normal human legbone, which can be easily purchased from medical supply chains online (the 2x scale replicas are typically used for teaching or demonstration).
I'd go on to list even more of his falsehoods, but I dont' have that much time in the day. Suffice it to say that, regardless of where one stands on the evolution/creation issue, this man should absolutely not be used as a source for material. Doing so does nothing but damage the Christian witness.
And then there are the numerous claims he's made about his so-caled museum. Just for starters, he claimed to have on display a "giant" legbone, as evidence for claiming that giant humans existed in the past as per biblical account. In reality, though, the legbone was a 2x scale resin copy of a normal human legbone, which can be easily purchased from medical supply chains online (the 2x scale replicas are typically used for teaching or demonstration).
I'd go on to list even more of his falsehoods, but I dont' have that much time in the day. Suffice it to say that, regardless of where one stands on the evolution/creation issue, this man should absolutely not be used as a source for material. Doing so does nothing but damage the Christian witness.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
How many criminals are in the Obama administration?
If you are going to smear someone then at least have the decency to post support of your claims or repent.
Source
Which you have failed to prove
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
That means nothing. I am a conservative and a creationist, but he committed a crime. It is even more reprehensible since he claimed to be a believer. What people in this present administration have done or are doing is immaterial to his criminality.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Sources please!
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
There is apparently some controversy about the commission of a crime, that is unless you are an infallible source of knowledge.
One thing I do know is that the IRS probably come the closest to being "jack booted thugs", as some leftist like to call our military, than any other group in the country. They answer to nobody and do as they please. If you run afoul of them you can be bankrupted and jailed.
Tom Bryant
Well-Known Member
He was convicted of the crime. No I am not infallible... neither are you.
There is an argument to be made about the IRS. It is the only institution in our gov't that can take your property without a court's permission. I would probably have no disagreement with you about their "jack booted" thugish ways.
I was responding to your inane comment about the Obama administration. They weren't the ones who brought the case, prosecuted the case or declared him guilty. The fact that they are or are not guilty of any crimes doesn't mean anything about this man's guilt. Yell all you want about the IRS. Make that the point. BUT, whether they have done anything wrong has no relevance about this man's guilt.
He did. When someone breaks the law the government will prosecute if they have enough evidence. It doesn't mattere what either the criminal or his supporters think.