Greetings in Jesus Christ's Name

[HopefulNChrist]

Hello, brothers and sisters in Christ.

I may not be a Baptist officially, but it is the closest I think that I relate to church wise, but I am registered as a non-Baptist Christian; FYI.

I was formerly a member of the Presbyterian Church until I had withdrawn my membership due to the church refusing to address the apostasy of the "Promise Keepers' Program" as they became the center for that movement in the valley in promoting for all the churches to get involved in.

I believe we are to stand fast in the liberty in which Christ has set us free and be not entangle again in any yoke of bondage since we are to deny ourselves as able to follow Him by our will power and merit in making us good and to crucify ourselves daily as it is not we who live by Christ Who lives in us and that is how we follow Him by trusting Him to be our Good Shepherd to help us to follow Him. That is why it is written that the just shall live by faith in Him and all His promises to us for why we can rest in Him for all things as we are the work of His hands; not our workmanship.

Jesus has set me free from my double minded state between doing the best I can and calling on Him for help when I needed Him, because, as it turned out, He wanted me to rely on Him all the time so I can rest in Him that He will help me to follow Him just as I am to rest in Him that I am saved when I had first believed in Him as the Lord Jesus Christ and that God has risen Him from the dead.

So that is why I speak against commitments and promises to God because that speaks of us and goes to our credit & glory for keeping it as it is a rudiment in all religions, but Christianity is about us decreasing in testifying of ourselves in seeking our own glory to speak of Him in seeking His glory so that sinners may also hope in Him. God will not help us keep our commitments nor promises because that is our work by our hands as His words says below:

Ecclesiastes 5:3 For a dream cometh through the multitude of business; and a fool's voice is known by multitude of words. 4 When thou vowest a vow unto God, defer not to pay it; for he hath no pleasure in fools: pay that which thou hast vowed. 5 Better is it that thou shouldest not vow, than that thou shouldest vow and not pay. 6 Suffer not thy mouth to cause thy flesh to sin; neither say thou before the angel, that it was an error: wherefore should God be angry at thy voice, and destroy the work of thine hands? 7 For in the multitude of dreams and many words there are also divers vanities: but fear thou God.

That is why Jesus said not to make an oath to God that God already had promised to do by His Covenant to us in Matthew 5:33-37 wherein verse 36 cites the reason which is we cannot make one hair white or black.

I am willing to discuss this issue with you if any of you do not understand why a commitment to follow Christ is not the same thing as living by faith in His promises to us for why we need Him to set us free from man made commitments because no one will be glorying in His Presence in Heaven bragging that they have kept it when by that commitment is the knowledge of sin, and those who live by the law, will be judged by it.

If circumcision is the smallest letter of the law and if a Christian did that, then he must keep the whole law, then where do you think the law of keeping vows will be on a Christian seeking to make himself "good" or to do "good" by keeping a promise register as under the law? It is the biggest letter of the law.

So that is why we need His help to see how a believer's commitment to follow Christ is of the rudiment of the world as found in other religions whereby He will set us free to rely on Him all the time for following Him.

Just thought I would explain why I withdrew my membership from the Presbytery as I thank Him for setting me free from all yokes of bondages that are really His to keep. He even helps me to rest in Him to show my faith in Him as a witness to sinners out there that cannot see it in themselves to repent from all sins in making that commitment to follow Christ in coming forward to be saved, when some of those sins have dominion over their lives. That is why they can come to Him to simply believe in Him to be saved because once they receive Him as promised at the calling of the gospel, then they have power and His help as our Good Shepherd to not only discern sin & iniquity, but to lean on Him for His help in departing from it daily by laying aside every weight & sin as well as cast down wicked thoughts to think on good things in running that race so that their joy may be full while walking in the light with Jesus Christ as He is in us & with us always.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure....8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Hebrews 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:....11 Being filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

Galatians 5:1Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage....5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.

2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I take it by the lack of warm welcome that most Baptists that has viewed my thread of greeting see nothing wrong with the Promise Keepers' movement, let alone the altar call of Billy Graham's?

If you had thought the commitment to follow Christ was enough, why did you get involved in the Promise Keepers' program?

So let's address the altar call of Billy Graham's which Franklin Graham maintains in taking over for his father.

"If you are not sure you are saved, come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ."

Think about what that altar call is asking unsure believers and sinners to do. To come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ so that by keeping that commitment to follow Christ, they will have assurance of salvation; but they have to keep on keeping that commitment to follow Christ and so they can't say they are saved yet because they are still trying to keep that commitment to follow Christ in order to gain the assurance of salvation.

BUT before that altar call is this gospel message;

"It is not keeping the ten commandments that is going to save you. It is not by going to church every Sunday that is going to save you. It is all those who call upon the name of the Lord."

It sure took the Lord Jesus Christ a long time to help me see this apostate altar call but Graham should have said this afterwards; "If you are not sure you are saved, if you had called upon the name of the Lord, believe His words that you are saved." And then for the unbelievers, "For those that do not believe in Jesus Christ that want to be saved, when you do believe in Jesus Christ, you will be saved so call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ to save you."

BUT that is hardly the same thing as "if you are not sure you are saved, come forward and make a commitment to follow Christ".

And as if that is not enough to make the believer or new believer obedient, the Promise Keeper's program was added so that by making promises to men and to God, they will become good fathers, good husbands, and good leaders in their church & community.... like wow. Christians can make themselves good and do good by the deeds of the law in following Jesus Christ.

Not. If it didn't work by keeping that commitment to follow Christ; it will not work by adding more yokes of bondages either.

You either live by faith in Him and His promises to us or you will be judged by your commitments & promises to Him for the law is not of faith and those that do them shall live in them.

Christ can set you free from your commitments and your promises to rest in Him that He will finish His work in you as well as help you lay aside every weight & sin when you trust Him as your Good Shepherd in helping you to follow Him while resting in Him as your Saviour when you had first believed in Him at the calling of the gospel. Yes, even I needed His help to trust in Him as He helps me to look to Him all the time for the power I need for following Him because that is what a Good Shepherd does..

 

[Rob_BW]

I would reckon that the lack of responses has more to do with the length of your opening salvo than any opinions about "promise keepers." You might have saved that post for a thread somewhere other than the New Member Introductions forum.

So far as an introduction, you haven't really introduced yourself.

But anyways, welcome to the baptistboard.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I would reckon that the lack of responses has more to do with the length of your opening salvo than any opinions about "promise keepers." You might have saved that post for a thread somewhere other than the New Member Introductions forum.

So far as an introduction, you haven't really introduced yourself.

But anyways, welcome to the baptistboard.

Thank you for the welcome.

As it was, and probably unnecessary, I was explaining why I had not joined another church since that time from 1994 only because of Promise Keepers. Baptists churches have joined in, but not all. Their lack of concern for the body of Christ elsewhere does suggest that they were unaware of the apostasy of the Promise Keepers' movement. If they do not see anything wrong with Billy Graham's altar call, then it would be probably why they saw nothing wrong about the Promise Keepers' movement of 1994.

Needless to say, I trust Jesus Christ as my Saviour that I am saved simply by believing in Him when I had first heard the gospel.

I had been led astray by the religious callings in Christianity as well as influenced by carnal influences in the world's entertainment arena that it took a while for the Lord Jesus Christ to set me free from vain religious strivings in 1994 as well as helping me to see what the weights were that were tempting me to sin so as to put them away... and that took time for Him in helping me in putting them away. He still has to help me too in keeping me from my sins today and every day.

If you or anyone else has a question, do feel free to ask. Not sure if I will answer it, depending on how personal it is since we are not suppose to give our personal information anyway on the internet, but feel free to ask anyway.

 

[Salty]

Would be interesting to know what religious background you identify with?

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Would be interesting to know what religious background you identify with?

As I mentioned in the OP, former Presbyterian, but I believe I relate to Baptist more than any other denomination, but technically, because not all Baptist churches are saying the same thing; like some say water baptism is necessary for salvation, I would prefer to be a witness of Jesus Christ rather than representing a denomination that is not always saying the same thing. That is Whom every believer is supposed to be doing rather than representing their denomination or their church to the world.

 

[Salty]

Thank - must have missed it somehow -
The only excuse I can think of is old age
Yea - old age and I'm sticking to that story

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Welcome to the Baptist Board, brother. I'm sorry To be so late but I just didn't notice the thread.
I don't think you'll find many people here who are fans of Promise Keepers. If there are, they've kept rather quiet about it!

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Thank - must have missed it somehow -
The only excuse I can think of is old age
Yea - old age and I'm sticking to that story

I have done that too in other forums, and so likely to happen in this one too, if it hasn't already.

Thanks again for the welcome, brother.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Welcome to the Baptist Board, brother. I'm sorry To be so late but I just didn't notice the thread.
I don't think you'll find many people here who are fans of Promise Keepers. If there are, they've kept rather quiet about it!

Thank you for the welcome, brother Martin.

Well, it is on the Lord to minister and cause the increase. I can only hope that He is peradventuring to recover some from that snare of the devil as well as from that apostate altar call of Billy Graham's in leading them to make a commitment to follow Christ as if keeping it is the means of gaining assurance of salvation.

Billy Graham should have left it at the gospel message that all those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved instead of flipping it over by that apostate altar call.

 

[Salty]

Billy Graham should have left it at the gospel message that all those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved instead of flipping it over by that apostate altar call.

I see nothing wrong with an alter call.
I will say, if you are singing all five stanzas of Just as I am for the seventh time - that might be a bit excessive.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

I see nothing wrong with an alter call.
I will say, if you are singing all five stanzas of Just as I am for the seventh time - that might be a bit excessive.

Well, if you are referring to an altar call by itself, there is nothing wrong with it, but with an altar call that is the opposite of the gospel, then that is wrong for how unsure believers and sinners are responding to that altar call since no one can really get assurance of salvation by keeping their commitment to follow Christ, so why make it, when the gospel says when you call on the name of the Lord, you are saved?

It would explain why so many that comes forward walk away from Jesus Christ later on in life, because they find they cannot keep that commitment to follow Christ without sinning. That is why no one will be justified by their commitment to follow Christ because by that commitment to follow Christ is the knowledge of sin.

That is why Jesus said that if any one would come after Him, let him deny himself, pick up his cross daily, and follow Me. That means to deny yourself as able to follow Him by keeping that commitment to do so by the religious flesh and will power, since we were also unable to save ourselves by the deeds of the law, pick up our cross daily as in it is not we who live, but Christ in us, for the power we need in following Him. Jesus Christ being our Good Shepherd in saying finally..."Follow Me" is the same thing as trusting Him to help us to follow Him which is why it is written simply that the just shall live by faith. But the law is not of faith and those who do them ( like making a commitment or a promise to follow Him ) shall live in them & thus judged by it.

A lot of believers mistaken the word "commit" to mean "I will do it" when in actuality, but how it is applied in the verse, commit means to "entrust" as the Greek word meant "to roll over" or so to speak the burden is entrusted to another.

John 2:23 Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. 24 But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men, 25 And needed not that any should testify of man: for he knew what was in man.

So Jesus Christ does not trust man nor His disciples of their flesh to be able to follow Him by having them make an oath to do so.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? 29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Luke 9:23 And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.

So the altar call "if you are not sure you are saved, come forward to make a commitment to follow Christ" is the apostate altar call which is the opposite of the gospel message that all those who call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved; and that is why not all altar calls are okay in the eyes of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Matthew 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

 

[Salty]

What I'm talking about - is having a time at the end of the service for people to come forward
with the opportunity of being saved, Making a public pronouncement of recently be saved,
decision to be baptized and/or to join, or simply a re-dedication.

Then after a person - esp for salvation - comes forward, the candidate should be taken to a side room
to be counseled by a mature Christian. Trying to counsel someone at the "alter" while the
pastor is still talking and the music still playing is totally unnecessary.

I would also say that someone cumming forward every Sunday, needs to be
counseled by the Pastor.

In addition, I do not like "mass invitations" Often the pastor will make
members feel guilty if you do not come forward for said mass invitation.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

What I'm talking about - is having a time at the end of the service for people to come forward
with the opportunity of being saved, Making a public pronouncement of recently be saved,
decision to be baptized and/or to join, or simply a re-dedication.

I agree with most of the above quote except I do not understand what you mean by a re-dedication. Isn't that not like making a commitment or a promise?

Then after a person - esp for salvation - comes forward, the candidate should be taken to a side room
to be counseled by a mature Christian. Trying to counsel someone at the "alter" while the
pastor is still talking and the music still playing is totally unnecessary.

I agree. Discipleship is usually a personal edification for growth in that event.

I would also say that someone coming forward every Sunday, needs to be
counseled by the Pastor.

You may want to change the spelling of "coming" in your original post as I did change it to "coming" in your quote above.

As it is, I believe every Sunday, the pastor should remind believers that Jesus Christ is in them and thus with them always so they can always go before that throne of grace for help from their Good Shepherd in discerning and departing from iniquity. If they do not get the answer they seek, then maybe they need to hear the Lord speak to them through the elders of pastor through His words in the scripture if there is something that needs to hear in order to understand a question about something in the Bible or what they need to do in according to His words to repent of whatever may be the cause of their problems in life or maybe an instruction on how to handle a problem in life that they are not aware of that may be in the Bible in how to handle it.

I would like a pastor to remind members that no matter how bad their lives get, Jesus will help them through today and to help them trust Him for tomorrow especially before someone commits suicide, and that if any member has trouble being comforted by Him or simply can't hear Him because they are in turmoil, to call the pastor or an elder for help.

In addition, I do not like "mass invitations" Often the pastor will make
members feel guilty if you do not come forward for said mass invitation.

Pastors & available elders should be making themselves available 24/7 in these latter days for counseling those in crisis as well as discipling others in their walk with the Lord. Not every one gets the answers they seek every Sunday, especially when they are afraid to ask. Most pastors just sit around for most of the week. The church members should be going into christian forums with their questions and encouraging others to go there, if not anything else. How else can they grow other than hope that Sunday, the pastor will give the answer they seek?

Course, the church could have a box where members can drop anonymous questions in and get an answer next Sunday by the pulpit o& have the answers printed out to be handed out with the bulletins & by the church's web site.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

There are some pastors who have Sunday Afternoon office hours. My home church has "prayer" rooms built into the area Choir and Baptistry area.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

There are some pastors who have Sunday Afternoon office hours. My home church has "prayer" rooms built into the area Choir and Baptistry area.

Do they have a box for anonymous questions that a church member may be struggling with but afraid to ask? That way. the pastor is edifying in areas needed for their Christian walk by responding with the answer next Sunday sermon, or providing the answer in the church bulletin as well as the church's web site for discipleship and counseling.

My former church that I had withdrawn membership from, had a youth that had committed suicide because he got arrested with marijuana. The arrest record disqualifies him from his dream job of working as a park ranger for the federal government.

I am concern over the lack of discipleship in the church and especially edification for those who make mistakes in life that their lives seems to be over with even as a Christian believer. Churches should have a help line for those contemplating suicide or at the very least have that Helpline number available in church's bulletin and on the bulletin board in the church as they come into church as well as in leaving the church.

If the church would target that topic in their youth programs to go to Christ Jesus for forgiveness and faith that He will open other doors where one closes forever may be helpful in future crisis they should find themselves in.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

We have an organized one on one discipleship program. It's been in existence for over 20 years. Being an inner-city church, we have a natural turnover of our membership. So, every couple of years of pastor goes through the program on Wednesday night.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

We have an organized one on one discipleship program. It's been in existence for over 20 years. Being an inner-city church, we have a natural turnover of our membership. So, every couple of years of pastor goes through the program on Wednesday night.

Too bad I did not grow up in your church, but Christ Jesus has been my Good Shepherd and still is, in taking care of me and helping me to follow Him as His disciple, especially in these latter days where faith is hard to find... especially in churches.

 

[rlvaughn]

Hello, Hopeful, welcome to the Baptist Board.

 

[HopefulNChrist]

Hello, Hopeful, welcome to the Baptist Board.

Thank you for the welcome, Brother rlvaughn

I just learned in the middle of the night about 2 A.M. about my habit of not listening; I was hearing but not comprehending, and with it a guilty conscience as if I was unwilling to listen.

If I was doing that in my every day life, and paying the price for it, I had to bring it to Jesus in prayer in case I was also doing that to Him. I had asked Him for forgiveness and His help in helping me to listen to His words, and to Him and not just to those around me in my everyday life. It is a habit that I will need His help daily and mayhap moment to moment, even by in post to post, to listen as I desire to repent and I know I cannot do this without Him.