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humm

well i see it like this..

1) Free Will with Partial Depravity or “Arminianism”

2) Total depravity or “Calvinism

3) Mixing of the 2...”Does not workism”

but..i have but wrong before.


In Christ...James

 

I need to add this to my post above.

I can understanding people wanting to try to mix the 2 together into one understnading doctrine. I have tried this before. I could never make it work for to me the 2 do not mix.

I in no way want to say you can not try.


In Christ..James

 

Calvinist, but there is no test for election - the state of being elect.

 

I hesitate to call myself Calvinist, because there are somethings in his theology that I do not accept. However, given the choices, I was compelled to check Calvinist.

 

One hardly sees these listed, but this is the 5 points of Jacobus Arminius

It should be noted that even these points have a dif meaning to each reader

1) Free Will with Partial Depravity
2) Resistible Grace
3) Fall from Grace
4) Conditional Election
5) Universal Atonement


at then John Calvin...

1) Total depravity (Original Sin)
2) Unconditional election (God's Election)
3) Limited atonement (Particular Redemption)
4) Irresistible grace (Effectual Calling)
5) Perseverance of the Saints

 

That's not a logical arrangement.

Regeneration essentially refers to being "born again." One cannot be regenerated in order to choose whether or not to be regenerated. I'd say the Arminian position as I've seen it has been that humanity is depraved but has enabling grace from God to choose or to reject Him. If they choose God, they will be born again (or regenerated). If one says that an individual has the natural ability to choose beyond the enabling grace of God, one would be essentially Pelagian, IMO.

I voted Arminian as defined by my post here.

 

Ditto, Seeking Truth

 

I agree with your point, but not with your side. lol

In the "books", most draw the lines this way. When in the fall of man what does dead mean? The words used most of the time are, WELL, DEAD, or SICK

Dead...without any life spiritually and cannot come to God on His own. So election must happen

Sick...Is dead to the things of God but can learn about God and choose to be saved. This is also called semi-Pelagian

Well...Adams fall was only himself. Each new man is a new adam and can determine his own moral state by actions. This view is also called Pelagians

 

Frogman,

Hey....great thread!

You say you are not too wise....I would have to disagree and note that many of your posts are very well put together! Serious on that.

If there is something....anything at all that is capable of thwarting God's plan, He is no longer sovereign.

By that very definition men are not free.

In Him we move and have our being.

You say it best when you say it like you usually say it; "Sovereign grace!"

Calvinist.

God bless you! Regards, KJB

 

Bro. Dallas & WallyGator

Yes I absolutely agree with the 5 points of Calvinism. I did not mean to sound contentious, so if I did I apologize.

I think a better term for my beliefs would be "Predestinarian".

 

The Arminian doctrine is based on "human pride". It is called "self righteousness".

It is people that see in them all the good needed to search for and find God. Once they find Him it is their will-power and effort that will keep them for eternity.

Better eyes to see with, better hearts to choose with, better and clearer minds with just the right wisdom.

It is nothing less than delusional.

Who is it that makes mens minds, eyes, hearts, ears and so on?

It is sinful corrupt people thinking that God is incapable to save sinful corrupt people without the help of sinful corrupt people.

Some people have never really been convicted of sin.

We don't go around preaching about ourselves; we preach Christ Jesus, the Lord.

Rom 10:20 I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me.” from Isaiah 65:1

1 Cor 4: 7 What makes you better than anyone else? What do you have that God hasn't given you? And if all you have is from God, why boast as though you have accomplished something on your own?

2 Cor 3:5 It is not that we think we can do anything of lasting value by ourselves. Our only power and success come from God.

James 1:17-18 Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth , so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures.

Phil 1:6 And I am sure that God, who began the good work within you, will continue his work until it is finally finished on that day when Christ Jesus comes back again.

"Let not the wise man boast of his wisdom or the strong man boast of his strength or the rich man boast of his riches, but let him who boasts boast about this: that he understands and knows me, that I am the LORD , who exercises kindness, justice and righteousness on earth, for in these I delight," declares the LORD .

Regards, KJB God bless!

 

I agree. Humanity is not capable of thwarting God's plan. I merely believe that God's plan is to incorporate human choice into the equation.

 

I believe that "choice" is the condition God sat.

 

TexSky

The only choice is God's. He chooses whom He will show mercy.

 

Hi Bro. Dallas;
Calvinist readily claim regeneration before anything else. What makes me wonder is just where does scripture actually say that regeneration comes first?
I've read where men have asked in the Bible how to be saved and in none of theese accounts did any one tell them they must be regenerated first. Please tell me just where Calvinism came accross such an idea.
Are all of us non Calvinist totally depraved?
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All