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Guardsman: CIA beat Iraqis with hammer handles

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Jul 31, 2005.

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  1. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    CIA officials used a sledgehammer handle to beat various prisoners in Iraq, and one official, whose name is classified, would often brag about his abuse of prisoners, according to testimony in a closed session of a military hearing.

    The transcript, obtained this week by The Denver Post under a court order, was of a March hearing to determine whether three Fort Carson Army soldiers should stand trial for the death of Iraqi Maj. Gen. Abed Hamed Mowhoush during an interrogation in 2003.

    Chief Warrant Officer Jefferson Williams and Spec. Jerry Loper face murder charges in the case.

    A third soldier, Sgt. 1st Class William Sommer, has not had final charges approved, though he also was involved in the March preliminary Article 32 hearing.

    Chief Warrant Officer Lewis Welshofer waived his hearing but is charged with murder.

    In the March hearing, Sgt. 1st Class Gerold Pratt of the Utah National Guard said he saw classified personnel use a 15-inch wooden sledgehammer handle to hit prisoners.


    SOURCE
     
    #1 poncho, Jul 31, 2005
  2. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Close to the size of a billy club?
     
    #2 carpro, Jul 31, 2005
  3. emeraldctyangel

    emeraldctyangel New Member

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    Darn near carpro.
     
    #3 emeraldctyangel, Jul 31, 2005
  4. KenH

    KenH Well-Known Member

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    Sounds more like a news story than a politics story.

    If these men are guilty then they should be prosecuted.
     
    #4 KenH, Jul 31, 2005
  5. JamesBell

    JamesBell New Member

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    The story clearly said they are being prosecuted. I think it proves that things aren't as bad as people would have you believe. Something wrong happened, the people that did it are being held responsible. Sounds good to me.
     
    #5 JamesBell, Jul 31, 2005
  6. ASLANSPAL

    ASLANSPAL New Member

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    I think it belongs in political and is an important story as we get more and more stories
    coming out...it is starting to add up to a culture
    and policy conducted from on high that a few
    carried out.imho

    humiliation and torture are not Christian values.
     
    #6 ASLANSPAL, Aug 1, 2005
  7. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I agree.

    It appears they are muslim values, though. Well, maybe not, but murder and mayhem certainly appear to be.
     
    #7 carpro, Aug 1, 2005
  8. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    I don't believe there is an actual shortage of murder and mayhem on the part of Christians -- or Hindus or Buddhists or Shintoist, etc. The only ones who are severely deficient, in this respect, seem to be the Jains.
     
    #8 Daisy, Aug 1, 2005
  9. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    I agree.

    It appears they are muslim values, though. Well, maybe not, but murder and mayhem certainly appear to be.     </font>[/QUOTE]I changed my mind and have come to the conclusion that torture is definitely a muslim value.

    Has to be. I couldn't think of a single majority muslim country that doesn't torture prisoners.
     
    #9 carpro, Aug 1, 2005
  10. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    It appears they are muslim values, though. Well, maybe not, but murder and mayhem certainly appear to be.     </font>[/QUOTE]I changed my mind and have come to the conclusion that torture is definitely a muslim value.

    Has to be. I couldn't think of a single majority muslim country that doesn't torture prisoners.     </font>[/QUOTE]Does this mean you are against Extraordinary Rendition ?
     
    #10 poncho, Aug 1, 2005
  11. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Not at all.

    I should think they would want to be incarcerated according to the customs and values of their own religion.
     
    #11 carpro, Aug 1, 2005
  12. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Got some contemporary examples?
     
    #12 carpro, Aug 1, 2005
  13. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Knowing they would subjected to torture? Yeah, I'll bet their fighting to get in line to be rendered by the CIA.

    OUTSOURCING TORTURE The secret history of America’s “extraordinary rendition” program.
     
    #13 poncho, Aug 1, 2005
  14. JamesBell

    JamesBell New Member

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    Carpo, I assume you're kidding about needing examples. If you need some, I would be happy to find them. But just think about the beheading of people by terrorists, the judicial system of Saudi Arabia, the abuses of prisoners in Iraq's prisons under Hussein, etc. There are many example of muslim's torturing people... both "infidels" and their own people.
     
    #14 JamesBell, Aug 1, 2005
  15. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    No, James. Sorry for the confusion.

    I was asking Daisy in response to this remark " I don't believe there is an actual shortage of murder and mayhem on the part of Christians", for some examples.
     
    #15 carpro, Aug 1, 2005
  16. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    Knowing they would subjected to torture? Yeah, I'll bet their fighting to get in line to be rendered by the CIA.

    </font>[/QUOTE]Why not?

    It appears that they are very religious and would want to be treated according to the tenets of their religion.

    Seems like the best place to get that treatment would be a muslim country.
     
    #16 carpro, Aug 1, 2005
  17. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

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    The war in Iraq.
     
    #17 Daisy, Aug 1, 2005
  18. carpro

    carpro Well-Known Member
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    The war in Iraq. </font>[/QUOTE]Pretty weak.
    I wasn't aware the War in Iraq was being faught on behalf of Christianity.
     
    #18 carpro, Aug 1, 2005
  19. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    The war in Iraq doesn't count Daisy as that is part of the GWOT or is it the "global struggle against extremism" GSAE now?
     
    #19 poncho, Aug 1, 2005
  20. OldRegular

    OldRegular Well-Known Member

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    Could those guardsmen be mistaken, or perhaps lying? Was Bush actually using that hammer handle on one of his secret visits? We all know from previous posts by Bush Haters that he has no Christian values! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
     
    #20 OldRegular, Aug 1, 2005
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