Hades, Heaven and Hell.

[37818]

There is a spectrum of beliefs on this subject.
The view I hold I will try to explain.
Hades/Sheol/the nether world.
It has two compartments.
* An upper place where believers went.
Also known as Paradise.
* And a lower place where the lost were held to Judgement.
Deuteronomy 32:22. Psalms 86:13.
Luke 16:19-31.
Luke 23:47.
Jesus after His resurrection, ascended to Heaven, He moved Paradise to Heaven.
Ephesians 4:6.
2 Corinthians 5:8. Believers now go to Heaven when they die.
When Jesus appears the second time He will bring believers from Heaven to be resurrected.
1 Thessalonians 4:14.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Gets an "Amen" from me.

And death and hades will be cast into the lake of fire.

While those who are born again are with the lord forever.

Wow. I read the end of the book. Sorry.

 

[37818]

Gets an "Amen" from me.

And death and hades will be cast into the lake of fire.

While those who are born again are with the lord forever.

Wow. I read the end of the book. Sorry.

Sir I started this thread because I offended a brother on this board in another thread related to this very topic.
My post was wrongly worded.

. . . But, just for my understanding of what you believe, who do you think was in Hades?

Those who died lost.

From my view if 2 Corinthians 5:8 does not teach believers go to Heaven then we all have a bigger problem.

You and I may not believe in the same Christianity. The whole reason I accepted Christ was with the claim of knowing for sure about going to Heaven, based on Romans 6:23, Romans 5:8, Romans 10:9 and Romans 10:13. I have studied this issue over 50 years. Your arguments can be fighting words.

 

[Van]

No Amen for the fictional move of Paradise from Abraham's bosom to the Third Heaven.

 

[37818]

No Amen for the fictional move of Paradise from Abraham's bosom to the Third Heaven.

Luke 23:43, ". . . To day shalt thou be with Me in Paradise. . . ."
Acts of the Apostles 2:31, ". . . of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in Hades . . . ."

2 Corinthians 12, ". . . the third heaven. . . . Paradise . . . ."

Ephesians 4:8, ". . . When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, . . ."

2 Corinthains 5:8, ". . . to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. . . ."

 

[Van]

Luke 23:43, ". . . To day shalt thou be with Me in Paradise. . . ."
Acts of the Apostles 2:31, ". . . of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in Hades . . . ."

2 Corinthians 12, ". . . the third heaven. . . . Paradise . . . ."

Ephesians 4:8, ". . . When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, . . ."

2 Corinthains 5:8, ". . . to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. . . ."

Clearly the third heaven (the abode of God) is Paradise.
Clearly the OT saints waiting in Abraham's bosom were "led captivity captive" to the third heaven, Paradise.

No verse or passage says or suggests Abraham's bosom was Paradise.

 

[agedman]

Clearly the third heaven (the abode of God) is Paradise.

It is now, but it was not prior to the ascension of the Lord.

Remember, after the resurrection many saw the long dead saints walking the streets.
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

If Paradise was already in the third heaven, then Christ would have already seen the Father an have ascended. But neither took place yet. Therefore, Paradise was removed and taken to heaven.

Clearly the OT saints waiting in Abraham's bosom were "led captivity captive" to the third heaven, Paradise.

Paradise was moved with the OT saints upon the ascension of the Lord.

No verse or passage says or suggests Abraham's bosom was Paradise.

This is true, just as many other principles in the Scriptures are attained by inference.

But you already knew all this.

So why do you post as you did?

 

[agedman]

For the general knowledge of the reader, the OT uses "paradise" to refer to more than the keeping of the saints.

 

[Van]

It is now, but it was not prior to the ascension of the Lord.

Remember, after the resurrection many saw the long dead saints walking the streets.
17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’ ”

If Paradise was already in the third heaven, then Christ would have already seen the Father an have ascended. But neither took place yet. Therefore, Paradise was removed and taken to heaven.

Paradise was moved with the OT saints upon the ascension of the Lord.

This is true, just as many other principles in the Scriptures are attained by inference.

But you already knew all this.

So why do you post as you did?

I kid you not, before Christ's ascension, He referred to Paradise as His destination. Thus the third heaven was Paradise before the ascension. The answer to "I have not ascended to the Father" refers to the risen Christ, in His resurrected body, rather than spiritually on the day of His physical death.

 

[37818]

Thus the third heaven was Paradise before the ascension.

No. Not according to Acts of the Apostles 2:31.

 

[Van]

No. Not according to Acts of the Apostles 2:31.

Not the verse referenced, and non germane. See Luke 23:43 where before His death Christ referred to Paradise. See 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 equating the third heaven with Paradise.

 

[37818]

Not the verse referenced, and non germane. See Luke 23:43 where before His death Christ referred to Paradise. See 2 Corinthians 12:2-4 equating the third heaven with Paradise.

Hades was where Paradise was prior to Christ's resurrection. 2 Corinthians 12:1-2 is a post resurrection, post ascension reference.

 

[Van]

Hades was where Paradise was prior to Christ's resurrection. 2 Corinthians 12:1-2 is a post resurrection, post ascension reference.

Prior to Christ's death, Jesus referred to Paradise as to where the thief would be taken. Are you claiming the thief was taken to Hades? Surely Christ's kingdom is the kingdom of heaven. So Jesus remembered the thief and took him to His kingdom in heaven.

 

[JesusFan]

Prior to Christ's death, Jesus referred to Paradise as to where the thief would be taken. Are you claiming the thief was taken to Hades? Surely Christ's kingdom is the kingdom of heaven. So Jesus remembered the thief and took him to His kingdom in heaven.

They both went to Abraham Bosom, in Hades, which was emptied out and taken to Heaven when Jesus ascended back

 

[Van]

They both went to Abraham Bosom, in Hades, which was emptied out and taken to Heaven when Jesus ascended back

The issue is the claimed relocation of Paradise from Abraham's bosom to the third Heaven. The claim is a fiction precluded by scripture.

 

[37818]

Prior to Christ's death, Jesus referred to Paradise as to where the thief would be taken. Are you claiming the thief was taken to Hades? Surely Christ's kingdom is the kingdom of heaven. So Jesus remembered the thief and took him to His kingdom in heaven.

No. I am claiming Paradise was a place in Hades prior to Christ's resurrection and ascension.

 

[37818]

The issue is the claimed relocation of Paradise from Abraham's bosom to the third Heaven. The claim is a fiction precluded by scripture.

Believe what you feel you must. I am of the persuasion Paradise was a place in Hades prior to Christ's resurrection and ascension. , Ephesians 4:8, ,". . . He ascended up on high, He led captivity captive, . . .". 2 Corinthians 12 is a post ascension account.

 

[JesusFan]

The issue is the claimed relocation of Paradise from Abraham's bosom to the third Heaven. The claim is a fiction precluded by scripture.

Jesus took and empied it out when he ascended back to heaven with all of them being held in there awaiting His coming!

 

[kyredneck]

Ephesians 4:8, ". . . When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, . . ."

Now this, He ascended, what is it but that he also descended into the lower parts of the earth? Eph 4:9

18 Because Christ also suffered for sins once, the righteous for the unrighteous, that he might bring us to God; being put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit;
19 in which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison,
20 that aforetime were disobedient, when the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water: 1 Pet 3

6 And angels that kept not their own principality, but left their proper habitation, he hath kept in everlasting bonds under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jude

 

[Van]

No verse or passage says or suggests Abraham's bosom was called Paradise. In the NT, Paradise and the third Heaven are used interchangeable, thus when Jesus says "today you will be with Me in Paradise" the idea is the thief was taken into His kingdom spiritually. And His kingdom was not in Hades...