has the Christian Church Redefined Hell and Homosexuality?

Anyone listening to Tony Campolo for a glimmer of truth is looking into an abyss of darkness.

The guy is wrong wrong wrong. Besides I challenge that universalism is now en vogue.

 

You have that right brother!!!!

 

Very good question.

It is past time for churches to realize that God loves everyone and desires that all be saved. There is no one who is sinless and thus no one can cast the first stone. Also, there is no any church of any size that does not have homosexuals or bisexuals attending and usually are members. There is no church of any size that does not have adulterers as attendees or members. Name the sin and almost all churches will have someone who attends or is a member and has committed that sin. Sure we need to help people over come their sins, but we are not to reject and cast them out. That is not our job. Our job is to present Christ and let the Holy Spirit work in the lives of all the people.

 

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.
1Co 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
1Co 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
1Co 5:7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

 

Does a gay person have to reject his lifestyle BEFORE he can be saved?

Or does he get saved and then the HS convicts him?

Just like a person who smokes, drinks, or cheats on his wife. Do they have to be sinless before salvation? Or do they change after conversion?

I, myself, was not perfect before i got saved, and I have not been perfect since i got saved. I am still a sinner, I am just forgiven.

Could it be that we as humans are repulsed more by some sins than others?

For instance, i loathe homosexuality and what it is doing to our churches and our society. But in reality, is two men living in sin any worse than an unmarried man and woman living in sin?

John

 

The big problem is that men and women are not pushing acceptance of living in sin on our government and school system. Homosexuals are.

 

That is exactly what I was talking about when i said "what they are doing to our society"

They are not content with just keeping it to themselves, they want social acceptance. But it still begs the question of severity. Is being gay worse than being an adulterer, or a drunk, or a thief?

At what point can a person get saved? After they have straightened their life out? Before they have straightened their life out?

I have heard many Christians say that Charles Manson will burn in Hell for what he has done. I say he will only burn in hell if he doesnt repent for what he's done. My point is that we as humans cant see the people that have committed sins that we find especially bad as able to repent and be saved.

In the case of homosexuality I think sometimes we don't quite make the same effort to teach them the gospel that we would a neighbor that we consider socially and culturally moral.

And I admit that I have some reservations myself. For instance, it would be easier for me to invite my unsaved neighbor and his wife to dinner with my family, and to share the gospel with them, than it would be to invite a gay couple over for the same reason.

John

 

The way it is being pushed makes it worse.

 

Mandy, this is what I am talking about. Yes, I agree with you, pushing does make it worse from our human perstective. But does the pushing make it harder for them to get saved? From God's perspective, are they any worse than any of us?

John

 

It doesn't matter. It doesn't change how we should deal with it. The consequences of their agenda rule the day. We have to address it differently because of their push.

 

Who are you kidding, Mandym?? This has already been done. Was being done all through my childhood. As a very young child, it would have been considered a shame and a disgrace to have a school teacher who had a child out of wedlock. Now?? No one even considers it a problem. When my eldest daughter was in 3rd and 4th grade, one of 8 teachers who taught those classes, carried on an affair with a married man in front of the entire school. It ended in divorce, pregnancy, marriage, divorce before the teacher, oh, got saved and realized the consequences of her actions..... Oh, it just amazes me the grace and mercy God shows to sinners. That teacher, was one of the best my youngest daughter ever had.

Grace and mercy.

The only reason we seek to ban h*mosexuals from every day life is that we as a culture have determined this sin to be akin to unforgivable. We say its going to be the ruin of our society, but its not.

What will ruin our society is when the church universal loses sight of grace and mercy.

 

1Co 5:1 It is actually reported that there is sexual immorality among you, and of a kind that is not tolerated even among pagans, for a man has his father's wife.
1Co 5:2 And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
1Co 5:3 For though absent in body, I am present in spirit; and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did such a thing.
1Co 5:4 When you are assembled in the name of the Lord Jesus and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
1Co 5:5 you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord.
1Co 5:6 Your boasting is not good. Do you not know that a little leaven leavens the whole lump?
1Co 5:7 Cleanse out the old leaven that you may be a new lump, as you really are unleavened. For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

 

Grace and mercy come after repentance not before.

 

Really? Because I'm pretty sure the Bible says that Christ came while we were yet sinners. And if that doesn't represent grace and mercy I don't know what does.

 

I had'nt noticed that. If so thats a shame. I know that universalism is very popular with lost people, for obvious reasons.

Those engaged in "alternate lifestyles" are doing a terrible job of coming to their senses and heeding Christs call to them to enbrace the gosple, be born of the Spirit, and start living a new life

The call is to all. Everyone has heard and heard and heard and heard and heard. Here in America and also world wide. The gosple is propagated through christians in daily life, from TV, radio, the internet, missionaries, etc etc etc..

They simply refuse. Of course we should contiunue evangelzing of course.

 

Yes really. No one receives the grace offered until they come to Christ.