Have ALL Received the Gospel?

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Has the gospel been presented to all? In light of the following passage, is the notion that is being floated on this list by some that the gospel has been disseminated to all a truthful and Scriptural reality?


Ro 15:20 Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
21 But as it is written, To whom he was not spoken of, they shall see: and they that have not heard shall understand.

 

[webdog]

I say yes. Justice demands it. One cannot be held accountable for disobeying something they have no knowledge about. The Gospel can be presented in many ways, with the Gospel in the stars as one of them.

 

[Pastor Larry]

No, the gospel has not been presented to all. But all men know about God and have rejected that knowledge. They are "without excuse" (rom 1:20).

 

[webdog]

No, the gospel has not been presented to all. But all men know about God and have rejected that knowledge. They are "without excuse" (rom 1:20).

Knowing "about" God and knowing God are two separate issues. One cannot be held accountable for not knowing God even though they know "about" God.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Webdog: Knowing "about" God and knowing God are two separate issues. One cannot be held accountable for not knowing God even though they know "about" God.

HP: You are absolutely right but wrong.

Knowing about God and knowing God are indeed two different issues, but I believe you are wrong in you conclusion that justice demands that the gospel be given to all. You are thinking right, it is just that your presupposition of original sin is in error. IF we were all born in sin, justice would demand that if God was going to punish man for sin that is unavoidable (an oxymoron) justice would demand that all be given the opportunity to hear the gospel. On the other hand, if man is not born in sin, and man has willfully disobeyed known commandments of God, God is under NO obligation to provide them with a Savior. Under this scenario, God indeed can show mercy on whomsoever He wills just as Scripture indicates is the case, for salvation is not about granting to men justice but about showing to them His mercy. God had already showed to men justice by providing all men with the needed abilities and strength to obey His reasonable commands, but they all willingly refused to obey and acted of their own free will in a selfish and sinful manner. God's justice demands that they be punished according to the law, not that mercy be extended to them.

This is why I say that when you hold to original sin, you reduce salvation to a matter of strict justice, and destroy the real import of the mercy that it shows.

 

[webdog]

Knowing about God and knowing God are indeed two different issues, but I believe you are wrong in you conclusion that justice demands that the gospel be given to all.

Let me rephrase what "all" is. "All" are those who have reached the point where they know that the things they do wrong (sin) are against God, and this sin is separating them from Him. There is a point where this happens to every human being except babies, young children and the MD. The Gospel doesn't need to be presented to an aborted child or an adult that cannot grasp mentally the Gospel.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Webdog: The Gospel doesn't need to be presented to an aborted child or an adult that cannot grasp mentally the Gospel.

HP: Man did you ever open a keg of worms here, and the focus of yet another thread to be started.

You exhibit clear understanding of what it takes to be a moral agent and thereby responsible for ones actions resulting in a proper candidate for punishments or rewards. If I read you correctly, you are stating that knowledge and abilities are both needed to be classified as a moral agent and to be held responsible and to be the just recipient of moral punishments or rewards for ones intents. You are right on target. This needs to be clarified for some others on the list as well.