Have you ever commited a crime that you didnt get caught for?

[ajg1959]

We were discussing people that have criminal records serving in the church on another thread, and I wondered about this question.

I know of several pastors that will admit that the only difference between them and some people serving prison time is that they didnt get caught.

So I was wondering how many of you have commited a crime that you could have went to jail for but didnt get caught?

And does that make people that did get caught any worse, or just caught?

If a pastor has ever commited a crime, even if he didnt get caught, should he be disqualified from church office?

I myself, have been caught and served time, and I got away with alot also.

By our standards, almost all of our Old Testament heros and authors are felons but yet we look to their writings, and lives as examples, and God used them in mighty ways. But would we really accept David or Moses in our congregation today as an equal? Or a Pastor?

AJ

 

[Marcia]

I stole some candy once around age 10 on a dare from a friend at an Army PX overseas. She was doing it and dared me. I would not have even thought of it otherwise, but that is no excuse, I realize.

This is not something I would have gone to jail for, but it was a crime. I felt guilty for that for a long time. I even thought, years later, of sending money to that place but wasn't sure how to address it. The candy was worth about 10 cents.

That is the only time I did something like that.

Both David and Moses were called by God for special roles that do not exist today.

 

[ajg1959]

Both David and Moses were called by God for special roles that do not exist today.

So, have God's standards changed?, and would we be doing the godly thing to refuse their leadership today?

AJ

 

[Marcia]

So, have God's standards changed?, and would we be doing the godly thing to refuse their leadership today?

AJ

We should follow the instructions in the NT on choosing elders/pastors and deacons.

You don't use narrative as prescriptive unless there is supporting scripture for it. The NT is what we look to for choosing elders and pastors.

 

[ajg1959]

We should follow the instructions in the NT on choosing elders/pastors and deacons.

I've got some reading, praying and thinking to do about this...LOL but this is why I posed the question, to invoke thought and get others ideas on this. Thank you for your input.

AJ

 

[Marcia]

I've got some reading, praying and thinking to do about this...LOL but this is why I posed the question, to invoke thought and get others ideas on this. Thank you for your input.

AJ

It's good to want input! :wavey:

 

[ajg1959]

We should follow the instructions in the NT on choosing elders/pastors and deacons.

You don't use narrative as prescriptive unless there is supporting scripture for it. The NT is what we look to for choosing elders and pastors.

Paul wrote those scriptures in the NT. Would he be disqualified by his own teachings? His past is pretty shady, (certainly a felon by todays standards) and we would have a hard time trusting him to lead us today, wouldnt we?

AJ

 

[Steven2006]

Paul wrote those scriptures in the NT. Would he be disqualified by his own teachings? His past is pretty shady, (certainly a felon by todays standards) and we would have a hard time trusting him to lead us today, wouldnt we?

AJ

Paul wasn't trusted at first. He proved himself and earned their trust.

 

[Marcia]

Paul wasn't trusted at first. He proved himself and earned their trust.

That's right.

 

[John Toppass]

Paul wrote those scriptures in the NT. Would he be disqualified by his own teachings? His past is pretty shady, (certainly a felon by todays standards) and we would have a hard time trusting him to lead us today, wouldnt we?

AJ

Paul was a felon? Paul was shady? The scripture I read say opposite. Acts 22 shows that even when he was prosecuting the believers, he did it according to the law. In fact, Paul states that he was "zealous toward God" in his actions. But, I guess you could call him "shady", for when Paul realized the truth of Jesus Christ he became a believer showing the same zealousness that he had before his conversion. To be a believer at that time was against the law so I guess he was a shady character right up to his death.

 

[ajg1959]

Paul was a felon? Paul was shady? The scripture I read say opposite. Acts 22 shows that even when he was prosecuting the believers, he did it according to the law. In fact, Paul states that he was "zealous toward God" in his actions. But, I guess you could call him "shady", for when Paul realized the truth of Jesus Christ he became a believer showing the same zealousness that he had before his conversion. To be a believer at that time was against the law so I guess he was a shady character right up to his death.

Thats why I said "by today's standards". I realize that persecuting Christians was according to the law in his day, but my point is that if he had been persecuting christians in our day that we would never truely trust him even after his conversion, and surely wouldnt want him as a pastor. The things he did that were according to the law in his day would be considered felonies today.

I was thinking about this thread as I was trying to go to sleep last night and it occured to me that we have to be very careful in deciding what sins are worse than others, and who is a worse sinner than we are. When we start disqualifying people from serving the Lord based on their past, or by our own human standards, then we are bordering on self-righteousness.

I heard a sermon some years ago that I will always remember. the pastor was talking about judging others. He said that we must always remember that when we compare ourselves to someone that we feel is a terrible sinner that we have to remember that its only by the Grace of God that we are not like them.

AJ

 

[Aaron]

I myself, have been caught and served time, and I got away with alot also.

By our standards, almost all of our Old Testament heros and authors are felons but yet we look to their writings, and lives as examples, and God used them in mighty ways. But would we really accept David or Moses in our congregation today as an equal? Or a Pastor?

AJ

This sounds a lot like a man who desires an office in the church, and instead of accepting the fact that he doesn't qualify, wants to marginalize the qualifications of those who are and were, almost to the extent that they really are no qualifications.

 

[pinoybaptist]

We were discussing people that have criminal records serving in the church on another thread, and I wondered about this question.

I know of several pastors that will admit that the only difference between them and some people serving prison time is that they didnt get caught.

So I was wondering how many of you have commited a crime that you could have went to jail for but didnt get caught?

And does that make people that did get caught any worse, or just caught?

If a pastor has ever commited a crime, even if he didnt get caught, should he be disqualified from church office?

I myself, have been caught and served time, and I got away with alot also.

By our standards, almost all of our Old Testament heros and authors are felons but yet we look to their writings, and lives as examples, and God used them in mighty ways. But would we really accept David or Moses in our congregation today as an equal? Or a Pastor?

AJ

Listen, do you want to know a secret ?
Do you promise not to tell, woh oh woh, oh, closer..
Let me whisper in your ears...
Say the words you long to heeear,
I'm a sinner, too, wohohohoh, just like you...

 

[blackbird]

We were discussing people that have criminal records serving in the church on another thread, and I wondered about this question.

I know of several pastors that will admit that the only difference between them and some people serving prison time is that they didnt get caught.

So I was wondering how many of you have commited a crime that you could have went to jail for but didnt get caught?

And does that make people that did get caught any worse, or just caught?

If a pastor has ever commited a crime, even if he didnt get caught, should he be disqualified from church office?

I myself, have been caught and served time, and I got away with alot also.

By our standards, almost all of our Old Testament heros and authors are felons but yet we look to their writings, and lives as examples, and God used them in mighty ways. But would we really accept David or Moses in our congregation today as an equal? Or a Pastor?

AJ

Reminds me of the Bill Murry movie "Stripes"

He was talking to the Army recruiter who asked

"Have you ever been convicted of a crime??"

"Convicted??? No---never convicted!!!!"

:laugh: :laugh:

When we study those Old(or even New) Testament characters---we get the "Good, bad, and ugly" of the whole character------the New Testament tells us that they were written for our example----when we read(say) of David's idiotic ramblings with Bathsheba---we read it in light of Truth and are taught that if we engage in like sin---that the "sword will never depart from our shoulder"-------that there is a record against David that will be carried into eternity and that if the bones of David could rise up and talk--those bones would say----"Don't do it my way!!!" The Law of the Harvest applied to King David as well as to all Bible characters


Now------the OP question is----if a pastor has committed a crime---and didn't get caught should he be disqualified from church office??

Tough question------lets just say that he commits a felony-------like simple robbery-----lets just say---Purse snatching at the mall---and noone has a clue its him---the Mall security cannot "face" him with any video camera---he just does it---and never gets caught----when he stands in the pulpit and preaches---its running through his mind---"Heavens!!! I've committed a crime! And these folks don't have a clue!!" and later on he falls under conviction about the crime----should he turn himself in---although the cops still have no clue its him?????

 

[pinoybaptist]

Blackbird, I think that pastor is "clueless" and if he is clueless about something which is obviously a crime, then why shouldn't he be "clueless" on what sin is, and if he is "clueless" on sin, how can I trust him to pastor the congregation in which I am a member ?

 

[ajg1959]

This sounds a lot like a man who desires an office in the church, and instead of accepting the fact that he doesn't qualify, wants to marginalize the qualifications of those who are and were, almost to the extent that they really are no qualifications.

What an idiotic assumption to make.

Your arrogance proceeds you.

And, as usual, you are wrong.

AJ

 

[saturneptune]

I was once charged with torture and crimes against humanity. We raided an associational meeting and tied 20 Baptist pastors to their chairs and made them watch while everyone else ate pot luck dinner.

 

[Palatka51]

Does driving 100MPH+ in a 55 mile zone count? It was a crime and I have done that and not been caught. Thank the Lord that His angels do fly faster. (Teenagers, what ever are we to do with them?)

I'd say that if the crime has harmed an innocent victim then yes I'd have trouble listening to such an individual. If that person did such a thing during his tenure as a Pastor or Christian.

 

[Palatka51]

Thats why I said "by today's standards". I realize that persecuting Christians was according to the law in his day, but my point is that if he had been persecuting christians in our day that we would never truely trust him even after his conversion, and surely wouldnt want him as a pastor. The things he did that were according to the law in his day would be considered felonies today.

I was thinking about this thread as I was trying to go to sleep last night and it occured to me that we have to be very careful in deciding what sins are worse than others, and who is a worse sinner than we are. When we start disqualifying people from serving the Lord based on their past, or by our own human standards, then we are bordering on self-righteousness.

I heard a sermon some years ago that I will always remember. the pastor was talking about judging others. He said that we must always remember that when we compare ourselves to someone that we feel is a terrible sinner that we have to remember that its only by the Grace of God that we are not like them.

AJ

Any thing that was done before conversion is now under the blood of Christ. Paul knew that even though his conversion made things right with God, he had to show that he did indeed convert by changing his Jewish name, Saul, to the gentile greek name, Paul. For a devout Jew, as Saul was, this was the same as death.

 

[blackbird]

Does driving 100MPH+ in a 55 mile zone count? It was a crime and I have done that and not been caught. Thank the Lord that His angels do fly faster. (Teenagers, what ever are we to do with them?)

I'd say that if the crime has harmed an innocent victim then yes I'd have trouble listening to such an individual.

But lets just say that the preacher commits that felony---that shoplifting episode---that purse snatching----and the cops have no clue its him---and he gets up on Sunday morning and preaches---and he is the only person who knows what he did--the listeners have no clue as to the preacher has even committed that crime--but the preacher knows--and opts not to turn himself in----and the listeners go on like he's "next to Jesus"----but yet the preacher knows what he did

What should he do??