Have you ever heard the claim that Satan serves God?

[xdisciplex]

There are christians, but I don't even know if these people really can be called christians, which believe that Satan and God are either the same or that Satan serves God and only does what God wants. But this would mean that Satan isn't even a bad guy but rather has this scapegoat image.
I think this is totally twisted. If God used Satan to carry out what he wants to do then this would be like using Satan as a scapegoat and this way God can still be "only good" while he uses Satan at the same time to camouflage his other deeds which wouldn't fit to his image. This would be totally sick.
This would mean that God is playing with us and making us believe that he's good and Satan is bad while he's responsible for what Satan does. But on the other hand I also don't understand why does Satan do exactly what God wants him to do? The holy spirit led Jesus into the desert. Why? Did God want Jesus to be tested by Satan? If so, why does Satan do whatever God expects him to do? Why did he not simply not test Jesus knowing that this is the exact opposite of what God expects him to do?
Doesn't this make Satan look totally dumb? Is he really so dumb?
Or when Paul says some christians were given over to Satan then this seems as if Satan is cooperating with God and carrying out his will because God wants these christians to be punished and then Satan carries out exactly what God wants. Why does Satan not simply do the opposite?

 

[BobRyan]

Some Calvinists believe that all evil acts at the dictate of God and that nothing that evil beings do is "of their own free will" or of their own at all. They claim that allowing evil beings to BE evil would be to remove some level of "absolute and total control from God" and in their tiny minds that would mean that God "is not sovereign".

Orthodox Judaism on the other hand teaches that Satan IS a loyal angel serving God by giving people trials to overcome to help them grow.

 

[genesis12]

I think this is totally twisted.

You're right.

This would be totally sick.

It is.

The holy spirit led Jesus into the desert. Why? Did God want Jesus to be tested by Satan? If so, why does Satan do whatever God expects him to do? Why did he not simply not test Jesus knowing that this is the exact opposite of what God expects him to do?

It was God's plan, put in place before time began. Satan had an opportunity to test Jesus, and Jesus "whupped up on his head and shoulders" as they say in Oklahoma and Texas. Satan fell for it, and Jesus utterly defeated satan's attempt. Thereafter, He, Jesus, could not be found in sin. "In all ways tested as we are, yet without sin."

When Paul says to the church to "give some over to satan" he is saying, in effect, okay, let them continue in their sin. Satan falls for it. Satan will have an opportunity to encourage them to continue, to remain out of fellowship (not lose salvation), to blow it as a Christian witness to others. In the final analysis, however, the one who is saved, born-again, will remain so, even though God may remove him from existence in this life. That's the "sin unto death" scripture. Not sin unto eternal damnation, but exit, stage left, to end the backslidden Christian's abominable witness to those of the Christian faith.

:applause: :thumbs:

 

[xdisciplex]

But at the beginning of Job it also sounds as if God is trying to stir up a debate about Job. I mean why did God even bring him up? God knew what would happen. Why did he do it? Did God want Job to be tested and to teach Satan a lesson? Somehow this is hard to understand because later on it sounds as if Satan has tempted God.
But God knew what would happen and if he had not brought Job up then nothing would have happened.

 

[Marcia]

But at the beginning of Job it also sounds as if God is trying to stir up a debate about Job. I mean why did God even bring him up? God knew what would happen. Why did he do it? Did God want Job to be tested and to teach Satan a lesson? Somehow this is hard to understand because later on it sounds as if Satan has tempted God.
But God knew what would happen and if he had not brought Job up then nothing would have happened.

The testing of Job glorified and glorifies God today. It is one of the greatest pieces of writing - even unbelievers say this.

It wasn't to teach Satan a lesson - there is no education of Satan. He's doomed. It was a lesson for Job maybe, but mainly to glorify God, and it did. It also gives us key info on Satan, about how his powers are limited.

Xdisciplex, I just posted 3 links on extra-biblical evidence for Jesus on the thread about the existence of :Fish: that you started. So read those. If you keep starting threads, I'm going to think I wasted my time and that you didn't look at or read them. So go read! :type:

 

[xdisciplex]

Hi Marcia,

do you think God is only interested in his own glorification and he doesn't care of humans suffer because of this? This is a strange picture of God.
Then God would be totally selfish and only interested in his own profit.