Have you EVER switched views?

See my latest topic

 

Hi Whetstone;
I voted I accept unconditional election although Calvinist do not believe it is unconditional but believe it is limited to just a few. If Calvinist believed it is unconditional then the rest of there doctrine would fall apart. In order for it to be unconditional then it would apply to everyone. If it is limited to just a few then there would have to be conditions.
May Christ Shine His Light On Us All;
Mike

 

Iluv,

So you believe in universal unconditional election?

 

Mike, I hope you know that you are redefining the term "unconditional election" in your post above.

Calvinists do believe in "unconditional election" as it is properly defined. God elected those who would be redeemed without that election being conditioned on anything done by those persons... no one deserves to be saved but God out of His good will saves some anyway.

I hope that someone who says as much as you do on the subject has a better grasp of the calvinist's position than this.

In order for it to be "unconditional", it does not have to apply to everyone... it has to be predicated on no condition that a man must meet or that God must respect as worthy of merit... to include an independent "good" decision to believe.

 

I never understood what all the fuss is about, so no.

Been truly born again - on your way to heaven
Not been born again - on your way below
What else matters?

 

This is what is known as "Theology". It matters a great deal, as we need to be sure that what be believe and teach, is Biblically sound, and not just some preconceived, unfounded notions. Not everything is black and white, and there is an ongoing need to invistigate many issues that the Bible teaches.

 

This is what is known as "Theology". It matters a great deal, as we need to be sure that what be believe and teach, is Biblically sound, and not just some preconceived, unfounded notions. Not everything is black and white, and there is an ongoing need to invistigate many issues that the Bible teaches. </font>[/QUOTE]I can think of more matters of "theology" that are greater importance - God's Love for us, why we need to be saved, who Jesus is, things like that.

As far as this debate - Sure, God is God. He knows what will happen before it does. But not one Calvinist or Arminian ever got saved without the following taking place:

1. Conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit
2. Responding to that call by asking forgiveness and receiving Christ as Savior, being "born again."

Now we are not God. We don't know who He's "elected". So sow the seeds of the gospel to all and wait on the Holy Spirit to give the increase. "How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?"

And stop all this fussin'.

 

"I used to reject it but now accept it" on all five.

 

This is what is known as "Theology". It matters a great deal, as we need to be sure that what be believe and teach, is Biblically sound, and not just some preconceived, unfounded notions. Not everything is black and white, and there is an ongoing need to invistigate many issues that the Bible teaches. </font>[/QUOTE]I can think of more matters of "theology" that are greater importance - God's Love for us, why we need to be saved, who Jesus is, things like that.

As far as this debate - Sure, God is God. He knows what will happen before it does. But not one Calvinist or Arminian ever got saved without the following taking place:

1. Conviction of sin by the Holy Spirit
2. Responding to that call by asking forgiveness and receiving Christ as Savior, being "born again."

Now we are not God. We don't know who He's "elected". So sow the seeds of the gospel to all and wait on the Holy Spirit to give the increase. "How shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard?"

And stop all this fussin'. </font>[/QUOTE]Debby, how can you call this "fussin'"? There are other threads that deal with the issues that you mention, and I know that they are important.

You speak of "sowing the seeds of the Gospel", but, before we can do this, we have to understand what exactly the "Gospel", or "Good News" about Jesus Christ really is. Don't you think so? The "Gospel" according to the Roman Catholics", is not "Justification by faith alone, through grace alone, in Christ alone". There are other strange views of the "Gospel" that I have heard. Then we have those who signed that document, "Evangelicals and Catholics Together", including some notable Evangelical scholars, like James Packer, and Bill Bright. Did you know that they agreed that we should not witness to Roman Catholics, since they are our brothers and sisters in the Lord? They called those who did, "sheep stealing".

You see, as I have said, everything is not black and white, and some need to be spelled out in more detail. If you think that what we do here is nothing but "fuss", then you have the free will not to return.

God bless

 

Whetstone, I think that "disdain" is rather a strong word to use here. Don't you?

 

This statement she made seemed like 'disdain' for the deeper things to me. is this an unreasonable evaluation? </font>[/QUOTE]Whetstone, I am sure that Debby does not have "a disregard with contempt" for the more deeper theological issues. This is what the word means.

 

I hope that someone who says as much as you do on the subject has a better grasp of the calvinist's position than this.

In order for it to be "unconditional", it does not have to apply to everyone... it has to be predicated on no condition that a man must meet or that God must respect as worthy of merit... to include an independent "good" decision to believe. </font>[/QUOTE]Mike is not the one with a hoaked up definition, you are! In order to understand UNCONDITIONAL, you must first understand CONDITIONAL & Condition!

When Applied from God's perspective The condition for Election is established by God! There is no such thing in God as RANDOM SELECTION, Else God would lose control and thereby be "God out of Control"! I trust none of you invisions God in any state other than completely in control!

 

NOT unexpected!

 

There is a common thread in all posts by Wes, Outwest; he alone knows the truth, everyone else is stupid.

 

And OldRegular can't do anything without his little gang of wavies!