HCSB > KJVs (examples)

[Ed Edwards]

The HCSB = Holman Christian Standard Bible
is much stronger on the Deity of Christ
than are the KJVs.

1 Peter 3:14b-15 (HCSB):

... Do not fear what they fear or be disturbed,
15 but set apart the Messiah+ as Lord in your hearts,
and always be ready to give a defense to anyone who
asks you a reason for the hope that is in you.

Sidenote: + Other mss read set God

1 Peter 3:14b-15 (KJV1769):
and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:
and be ready always to give an answer to every man that
asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you
with meekness and fear:

Isaiah 8:12b-13a (HCSB):

... Do not fear what they fear,
do not be terrified.
13. You are to regard only the LORD of Hosts
as holy ...

Peter is NOT quoting the Hebrew OT source text
but the LXX (Greek OT source).
Further, Peter replaces LORD with Messiah
(or Christ). This clearly shows in
a very strong method that Jesus, the
Messiah of the NT is the OT LORD
of Hosts. This in the HCSB is STRONG
Deity of Christ teaching. The KJVs are
much weaker IN THIS scripture.

No, I'm not HCSB-only, i do not consider
the KJVs to be a Byzantine/COE
plot of Satan to mess up the
Holy Bible.

 

[Terry_Herrington]

Ed, why do you want to compare a second rate commentary to the KJV?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Specific Biblical examples outweigh
broad, unproved generalities.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Terry_Herrington:
Ed, why do you want to compare a second rate commentary to the KJV?

Opinion is not documentation. So give us some facts.

 

[Deborah B.]

Terry,

I own an HCSB. As I have posted on here before, I spent many years trying to read the KVJ and never understood a lot of it. The language is NOT anything we use today. Do you actually think that God would only have one 400-year-old archaic English Bible and have many in my generation and generations to come not understand His words???? Think about it!!! Do you not understand that God promised to preserve His words (NOT A TRANSLATION) for all generations? The KJV is obviously not working totally for me or my children or the girls I teach at church as far as comprehension. But guess what? They are understanding every part that I have read to them from the HCSB!!!! Hmmmm, sounds like God has once again made truth of His promise!

In Christ,
Deborah

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
1 Peter 3:14b-15 (HCSB):

... Do not fear what they fear or be disturbed,
15 but set apart the Messiah+ as Lord in your hearts,
and always be ready to give a defense to anyone who
asks you a reason for the hope that is in you.

Sidenote: + Other mss read set God
--------------------------------------------------


This has degraded God in this passage, and could encourage gnostic/New Age beliefs. The KJB is correct, to sanctify the Lord God in your hearts - God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in your hearts. Not just the Son (Christ only - which can be have gnostic/New Age applications), but God Almighty (these three in One) as the following scriptures declare:


1 Peter 3:14b-15 (KJV1769):
and be not afraid of their terror, neither be troubled;
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts:
and be ready always to give an answer to every man that
asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you
with meekness and fear:


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Ed Edwards]

Amen, Sister Deborah B. -- Preach it!

Gb93433: "Opinion is not documentation. So give us some facts."

Amen, Brother GB93433 -- Preache it!

Michelle: "This has degraded God in this passage, ... "

I respectfully disagree. And your subpoints are?

BTW, you just made a NEGATIVE confession.
Running something down is NOT the same as building
up something else.

Michelle: " ... and could encourage gnostic/New Age beliefs."

Please define "gnostic" and "New Age". Keep in mind
that IMO you are claiming that Peter's declaration
here that the Christ is God (the Deity of Christ) is
likely to encourage what ever gnostic might be
and what ever "New Age" might be. Also, what you mean
by the slash here? Doesn't the slash usualy seperate
different names for the same thing? You aren't
confusing "gnostic" and "ascetic" here, are you?

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Michelle: " ... and could encourage gnostic/New Age beliefs."

Please define "gnostic" and "New Age". Keep in mind
that IMO you are claiming that Peter's declaration
here that the Christ is God (the Deity of Christ) is
likely to encourage what ever gnostic might be
and what ever "New Age" might be. Also, what you mean
by the slash here? Doesn't the slash usualy seperate
different names for the same thing? You aren't
confusing "gnostic" and "ascetic" here, are you?
--------------------------------------------------


Go check out the Westcott and Hort thread I started a while back, and the NIV thread to which I also shared with you all, the dangers of the NIV that could be applied in such a way.


I know you are not ignorant of these threads, as you yourself posted on them. So your pretending that I have stated something without supplying the definition doesn't hold water, Ed.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Dr. Bob]

Another smokescreen. Holding the KJV as the ultimate standard and saying that those who opt for other words are gnostic, et al slurs.

The Lord (God the Son) is my Messiah. God the Spirit isn't. God the Father isn't. That is a role of the Son.

Two different families of Greek texts use "God" or "Messiah". I actually think that Messiah is the better choice and consistent both in grammar and in the revelation of the nature of the Godhead.

 

[manchester]

This [Holman] has degraded God in this passage, and could encourage gnostic/New Age beliefs. The KJB is correct, to sanctify the Lord God in your hearts - God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in your hearts.

You have made a conclusion without any basis. Please give support for your statement that the KJV is correct and the Holman is wrong.

 

[natters]

michelle said "This has degraded God in this passage, and could encourage gnostic/New Age beliefs."

Only if completely incorrectly interpreted, just as one could do with any similar verse in the KJV or any other translation.

michelle said "Go check out the Westcott and Hort thread I started a while back"

You mean the one you eventually conceded that they only said doctrinally correct orthodox things because they were hiding something?

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
michelle said "Go check out the Westcott and Hort thread I started a while back"

You mean the one you eventually conceded that they only said doctrinally correct orthodox things because they were hiding something?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yep. Just as the Lord has warned us about:

Acts 20

29. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31. Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Matthew 7

12. Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.
13. Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14. Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
15. Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16. Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17. Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19. Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20. Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23. And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24. Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25. And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.


Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[natters]

michelle said "Yep."

OK, thanks for the advice. Avoid people who say only doctrinally correct orthodox things. No wonder KJV-onlyism continues to flourish, if this is the approach we are to take.

 

[av1611jim]

Originally posted by Deborah B.:
Terry,

I own an HCSB. As I have posted on here before, I spent many years trying to read the KVJ and never understood a lot of it. The language is NOT anything we use today. Do you actually think that God would only have one 400-year-old archaic English Bible and have many in my generation and generations to come not understand His words???? Think about it!!! Do you not understand that God promised to preserve His words (NOT A TRANSLATION) for all generations? The KJV is obviously not working totally for me or my children or the girls I teach at church as far as comprehension. But guess what? They are understanding every part that I have read to them from the HCSB!!!! Hmmmm, sounds like God has once again made truth of His promise!

In Christ,
Deborah

Anecdotal evidence is just about as weighty as opinion.
I know of churches all across this land who use KJB only and are thriving.
Guess what?
THEIR KIDS LOVE THE KJB! And UNDERSTAND IT!
Hmmm, seems as though your "evidence" is no evidence at all. Merely personal experience.
In His service;
Jim

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
OK, thanks for the advice. Avoid people who say only doctrinally correct orthodox things. No wonder KJV-onlyism continues to flourish, if this is the approach we are to take.
--------------------------------------------------


That was not the advice given, nor what those scriptures reveal Natters, and YOU KNOW IT. You again AVOID THE OBVIOUS TRUTH.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[natters]

Sure it was. I asked if you meant the thread where you eventually conceded that they only said doctrinally correct orthodox things, and you said "Yep".

 

[AVL1984]

Michele, you often accuse people of "avoiding the obvious truth". You need to explain your points more clearly. What you think is the truth in your mind may not be so obvious in someone else's. It's clear that you THINK you know the truth, but to many here, it is obvious you only know half of it. This is not a slur or a slam, it is an observation. Like the Jehovah's Witnesses have been brainwashed into believing something is truth and can't explain their position with any validity, you haven't, nor do you even try to approach your posts with any form of sanity, just what you've been bottle fed by a pastor or someone else. It's a shame, too, because I see a lot of potential in you for the Lord.

[ October 19, 2004, 05:14 PM: Message edited by: AVL1984 ]

 

[Trotter]

Ditto, Tony.

 

[michelle]

--------------------------------------------------
Michele, you often accuse people of "avoiding the obvious truth". You need to explain your points more clearly. What you think is the truth in your mind may not be so obvious in someone else's. It's clear that you THINK you know the truth, but to many here, it is obvious you only know half of it. This is not a slur or a slam, it is an observation. Like the Jehovah's Witnesses have been brainwashed into believing something is truth and can't explain their position with any validity, you haven't, nor do you even try to approach your posts with any form of sanity, just what you've been bottle fed by a pastor or someone else. It's a shame, too, because I see a lot of potential in you for the Lord.
--------------------------------------------------


I said this in response to Natters:

--------------------------------------------------
michelle said "Go check out the Westcott and Hort thread I started a while back"

You mean the one you eventually conceded that they only said doctrinally correct orthodox things because they were hiding something?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yep. Just as the Lord has warned us about:


Acts 20

Matthew 7.


My answer and point was indicated in the obvious truth of those scriptures to which was/is there are many wolves in sheeps clothing, and how we are to know them by their fruits. We do not just take someone's word and belief at face value, but we are to test them - even those claiming to be christian, and saying christian things. My answer "Yep" was acknowledging what Natters said I believed and stated in that thread, and I proceeded to explain why showing you the scriptures. I am sorry it wasn't clear and obvious to you. I thought it was. My apologies.


love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
michelle

 

[Trotter]

My answer and point was indicated in the obvious truth of those scriptures to which was/is there are many wolves in sheeps clothing, and how we are to know them by their fruits. We do not just take someone's word and belief at face value, but we are to test them - even those claiming to be christian, and saying christian things.

Sort of ironic that you should be the one to post that, Michelle.

Other than personal preference and generic scripture references, what evidence do you have to back up your assertations?

In Christ,
Trotter