tragic_pizza
New Member
Oh, haha, Dustin made a funny.
:sleep:
:sleep:
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HELL- Does it Burn Forever and Ever?
- Thread starter Claudia_T
- Start date
well that one was downright funny, considering what we believe about the ten commandments LOL!...Dustin saying that SDAs dont want to teach that hell burns forever because we dont want to offend sinners.
yeah we SDAs just try extra hard not to offend sinners
and then there's Amy, who in effect is telling me...
Claudia, you couldnt of possibly gotten the idea that the Second Death actually means DEATH from reading the Bible yourself! Why, you mustve gotten that idea from Ellen White!
Because NOBODY could get the idea that the Second Death actually means DEATH.. just by reading it! You had to have been led along by some "Cult" leader to come up with THAT novel idea!
(sorry its hard not to make fun of how people do this)
yeah we SDAs just try extra hard not to offend sinners
and then there's Amy, who in effect is telling me...
Claudia, you couldnt of possibly gotten the idea that the Second Death actually means DEATH from reading the Bible yourself! Why, you mustve gotten that idea from Ellen White!
Because NOBODY could get the idea that the Second Death actually means DEATH.. just by reading it! You had to have been led along by some "Cult" leader to come up with THAT novel idea!
(sorry its hard not to make fun of how people do this)
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tragic_pizza
New Member
OK, so if I believe in Christ, but don't have the "right" theology of Hell, I'm going there?webdog said:
What about those that believe in the dotrine of annihilation that have decided that they did not need Jesus if the worst they have to fear is annihilation?Claudia_T said:
This article - http://www.bible-researcher.com/hell5.html - refutes your "proof" text given.
Gup20 said:
well to some it might seem logical I guess, but no more than my idea that why would God give eternal life to the wicked... in Hell.
You cant go just by what to our human minds seems "logical" you just have to go by what the scriptures say.
What a person has to do is this...
You sit there and look up every single verse you can find on a subject such as Hell, then you lay aside your preconceived ideas... at the door of investigation.
If what you find goes against your previously held ideas then you must let them go. You have to let every Bible verse have its weight and ignore none.
Most of all you have to pray for the Holy Spirit to enlighten your mind as you study.
You cant go by human logic.
God doesnt hold us responsible for the fact that He is infinite. Seriously, thats not our fault. He is a just God.
Gup20
Active Member
But you find it much easier to believe that he would force people to go to heaven against their will?
You find it much easier to put God in a little box and say he's only that big, so sin against him isn't really THAT big of a deal?
Perhaps you think a God who built us all as little robots running out a program he wrote before time began (meaning that God himself orchestrated all the pain and suffering in the world) is much easier to stomach than the idea that God made people with the ability to choose life and death for themselves?
You see, in order to maintain the 'innocence of God' as it pertains to sin and death, you must make sin a choice MAN can make on his own. You fail to realize that God made the earth a garden of Eden -- without sin, without death, without pain. It was MAN who chose to sin against God and invite death into this world.
Rom 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
So it was MAN's CHOICE, not God's choice for sin, death, suffering, etc to enter the world. MAN is responsible for this condition, not God. In order for God to be God, and be JUST sin must be punished. God gave us life, and we turned around and said "we don't need you, leave us alone". It is US who are responsible for sin and death in the world, not God. He provided a way to escape sin and death.
Keep in mind that Genesis 1 says "and God said it was Good". Do you think that God would call sin, death, pain, and suffering good? Do you think these were part of the original creation?
Gup20
Active Member
How do you define life and death? Death can simply be defined as eternal separation from God. Life can be defined as eternity with God. The Bible says "God is life". Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father without life.
We are a triune being. We have a spirt, a soul, and a body. While the body may die, the spirit is eternal. Eteral existance is not the same as eternal life. Life is fellowship with God the father.
Well I see that Abraham - the world's first christan - was in hell until Jesus came and died setting the captives free. This denotes that even Jesus had the choice to sin or not. To allow all the saints before Christ to go to heaven prior to that would have taken choice away from Jesus.
No, but our actions are our fault. The Bible says that ALL HAVE SINNED AND FALL SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. Therefore, all of us DESERVE eternal damnation. Look at it this way:
If I slap my brother in the face... he might get angry, but would the police arrest me for it? Probably not... it's a family quarrel. Now if I slapped a stranger in the face, would I be arrested? Perhaps. Now if I slapped the President in the face would I be detained? YOU BET I WOULD. We can see that a person's value effects the punishment ... even by our own definition of justice. Now if we slap God who is infinate in the face, and sever fellowship with him, the one who gave us life should we really expect to keep our life? A just punishment deserves an infinate penalty.
Gup20
Active Member
Your implication is that it is unjust for God to "scare people" into going to heaven by punishing them with an infinate stay in hell. However, this assumption is simply unfounded.
Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
In fact an infinate punishment of death in hell is the ONLY just punishment for sin against an infinately good God.
Gup20 said:
well are you listening to what you are saying? infinite punishment of death in hell???
DEATH...
How can you have everlasting or eternal destruction and eternal torment at the same time? any ideas on that?
"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power." 2 Thess. 1:9 (Acts 3:23) (Matt. 10:28).
Gup;
Look at this and compare, ok?
with these first two verses you have the righteous getting eternal life, right?
but the wicked have DEATH and ETERNAL punish-MENT
there's a difference between punish-ING and punish-MENT
Look at this and compare, ok?
with these first two verses you have the righteous getting eternal life, right?
but the wicked have DEATH and ETERNAL punish-MENT
there's a difference between punish-ING and punish-MENT
"And these shall go away into everlasting punishment; but the righteous into life eternal." Matt. 25:46.
"For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." Rom. 6:23.
remember what I just showed you about everlasting DESTRUCTION? that is their everlasting punish-MENT not punish-ING as in an ongoing forever thing
then you come down here and look again... and the wicked in the lake of fire get DEATH... that is the wages of sin... not eternal life in hell
"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murders, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death." Rev. 21:8.
You have to compare verses...
I mean, seriously, you cant have eternal life in hell and DEATH at the same time... something's wrongggggggggggggggggg!!! right?
I mean, seriously, you cant have eternal life in hell and DEATH at the same time... something's wrongggggggggggggggggg!!! right?
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