HELL- Does it Burn Forever and Ever?

[Shiloh]

Isa 33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness hath surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall dwell with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Isa 66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

Mat 3:12 Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Mat 18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mar 9:44 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Rev 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet [are], and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

There is more said about hell in the Bible then Heaven. No Saved person revels in the contemplation of eternal punishment for the unsaved. Dwight L Moody said one time that no man should ever preach on hell without tears in his eyes.

The Bible is explicit in it's teaching that those who spurn the call of Christ and die without Him will spend eternity in hell.

The SDA and the JW cult "theology" has flourished because a natural man finds it distasteful that he will be judged in fire eternally for his sins.

Hell is as real as Heaven. Those dying without Christ will spend eternity in the Lake of fire.

 

[BobRyan]

Hey what's up with that?? Shiloh has gone to using the Bible to make his argument??!!

Is this some kind of trick?

 

[BobRyan]

Fiery Hell – is in fact “eternal fire”

Matt 18:8-9
8 If your hand or your foot causes you to stumble, cut it off and throw it from you; it is better for you to enter life crippled or lame, than to have two hands or two feet and be cast into the eternal fire.
9 If your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out and throw it from you. It is better for you to enter life with one eye, than to have two eyes and be cast into the fiery hell.

Eternal fire is what consumed Sodom and Gomorrah – they are exhibited as a perfect example of the “punishment of eternal fire”

Jude 7
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

Sodom and Gomorrah were Destroyed by “fire and brimstone”[/b]. So [b]eternal fire is composed of fire and brimstone[/b] and the “destruction” it causes is exhibited by Sodom and Gomorrah.

Luke 17:29-30
29 but on the day that Lot went out from [b]Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 "It will be [b]just the same[/b] on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of the punishment of "eternal fire" dESTROYING something.

Let's not turn a blind eye to it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Luke 17:29-30
29 but on the day that Lot went out from [b]Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.[/b]
30 "It will be [b]just the same[/b] on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.


The Lake of Fire is composed of “fire and brimstone” (The ultimate exhibit of the “punishment of eternal fire”.) This is the “second death” which is the punishment for sin “The wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life”


Rev 21:
8 But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Just as we saw this SAME thing destroy Sodom and Gomorrah (eternal fire DESTROYED those cities) so it will destroy the wicked in the Lake of Fire "Both Body AND SOUL" according to Matt 10:28

 

[BobRyan]

Death is ended.
"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death." (1 Cor. 15:26)


[b]The Lake of FIRE IS the 2nd death Rev 20:18 – So it too ends.[/b]


The wicked are “consumed” they are “destroyted”.

The same concept of Kill and “Destroy” applied in the real world to real saints really being killed by real wicked people is applied to BOTH the body and the soul in hell fire in Christ’s warning .

Matt 10
28 ""Do not fear [b]those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/b]

In Matt 10 Christ goes from the idea of “Kill” to the even MORE complete idea of “Kill and destroy” in the sequence above. This progression is seen clearly as Luke relates the same teaching below.

Luke 12
4 ""I say to you, My friends, [b]do not be afraid of those who kill the body[/b] and after that have no more that they can do.
5 ""But I will warn you whom to fear: fear the One who, after He has killed, has authority to cast into hell[/b]; yes, I tell you, fear Him!

Rev 20:9 “Fire DEVOURED the wicked”
Rev 11:18 “Destroy those who Destroy the earth”
2Thess 1:9 The wicked pay the “penalty of eternal Destruction”

Ps 21:8-10 “devoured” – “Destroyed”

“You will make them a fiery oven in the time of your anger; The Lord will swallow them up in His wrath, [b]fire will devour them. Their offspring you will Destroy from the earth..”

[/quote]

 

[BobRyan]

The wicked are “consumed”

Rev 20:9
Rev 20
5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection.[/b]
6 Blessed and holy is the one who has a part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
7 When the thousand years are completed, Satan will be released from his prison,
8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together for the war; the number of them is like the sand of the seashore.
9 And they came up on the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, and [b]fire came down from heaven and devoured them.



Heb 10:27

Heb 10
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a [b

]terrifying expectation of judgment and THE FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES.[/

b]
28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 How much severer punishment[/b] do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace?



2Peter 3:7-12

7 But by His word the present heavens and earth are being reserved for fire, kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.[/b]
8 But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
9 The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, [b]not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, in which the heavens will pass away with a roar and the elements will be destroyed with intense heat, and the earth and its works will be burned up.
11 Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of people ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness,
12 looking for and hastening the coming of [b]the day of God, because of which the heavens will be destroyed by burning, and the elements will melt with intense heat!


Ezek 28:18

Ezek 28 <Speaking of Satan>
18
"By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
[b] It has consumed you, [/b]
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19
"All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever."'"




Ps 104:35
Ps 104.
35Let sinners be consumed from the earth
And let the wicked be no more [/b]
Bless the LORD, O my soul
Praise the LORD!

The same concept of Kill and “Destroy” applied in the real world to real saints really being killed by real wicked people is applied to BOTH the body and the soul in hell fire in Christ’s warning .

Matt 10
28 ""Do not fear [b]those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather [b]fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/b]

In Matt 10 Christ goes from the idea of “Kill” to the even MORE complete idea of “Kill and destroy” in the sequence above. This progression is seen clearly as Luke relates the same teaching below.

 

[BobRyan]

The Old Testament, however, does offer precedent for events that are seemingly presented as lasting forever NOT actually lasting forever according to the Bible books. To give other examples in the book of Jonah ,

Jonah describes his experience of being inside the fish as being an experience that lasted forever "I went down to the bottom of the mountains the earth with her bars was about me FOREVER--" , yet we know from elsewhere in the book of Jonah that Jonah was NOT in the belly of the fish forever. So here is yet another case in the Bible of something being described as lasting forever but which did NOT according to the same Bible book actually last forever. Might the references in the Bible that are translated into English as describing such things as everlasting damnation be case of potential rather than actual everlastingness .?

In Isaiah 34 :5-15 it is interesting that the prophet describes a future punishment of the nation of Edom as involving the land being set ablaze where, "The streams thereof shall be turned into burning pitch and the dust into brimstone, and the land shall become burning pitch.It shall NOT be quenched night nor day ; the smoke thereof will go up forever" Isaiah 34:verses 9-10 (This verse is remarkably similar to a description of a firey punishment in the book of Revelation where a similar phrase is used) but then it goes on in the next couple of verses to describe birds coming to live there and thorny plants taking root there ---an unlikely thing to happen if the imagery of Isaiah 34 describes endless burning of the Land of Edom ". Rather it describes a complete destruction – “forever” in context with the thing it is applied to – as long as it lasts.

 

[BobRyan]

Jim said -- You are LIKE a rabid dog. (pointless ranting deleted here,,,

The point is your argument is dead silent on Matt 10:28 and on Rev 14:10 and on every point made so far.

The Text in Obediah shows that ALL NATIONS cease and ALL become as if they never existed when God destroys THEM ALL --

For ALL the wicked will cease to be - according to scripture.

This get pointed out repeatedly -- and you only whine that some part of the Bible is quoted that you would prefer not to read.

Ezek 28 <Speaking of Satan>
18
"By the multitude of your iniquities,
In the unrighteousness of your trade
You profaned your sanctuaries.
Therefore I have brought fire from the midst of you;
[b] It has consumed you, [/b]
And I have turned you to ashes on the earth
In the eyes of all who see you.
19
"All who know you among the peoples
Are appalled at you;
You have become terrified
And you will cease to be forever."'"




Ps 104:35
Ps 104.
35Let sinners be consumed from the earth
And let the wicked be no more [/b]
Bless the LORD, O my soul
Praise the LORD!

The same concept of Kill and “Destroy” applied in the real world to real saints really being killed by real wicked people is applied to BOTH the body and the soul in hell fire in Christ’s warning .

Matt 10
28 ""Do not fear [b]those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather [b]fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.[/b]

How sad for you that these texts refute your false doctrine.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah is a perfect example of the punishment of "eternal fire" dESTROYING something.

Let's not turn a blind eye to it.

In Christ,

Bob

What makes you think that the words "Sodom" and "Gomorrah" refer to buildings and not to people. The people were destroyed physically, just as the world in the flood was destroyed but it was the people that perished or were destroyed physically. What makes you so sure that the word "Sodom" simply refers to the city, and not the people. Jesus didn't use the word that way.

 

[BobRyan]

Jude 7
6 And angels who did not keep their own domain, but abandoned their proper abode, He has kept in eternal bonds under darkness for the judgment of the great day,
7 just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

but on the day that Lot went out from [b]Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all

It can easily be "seen" that the cities were utterly and completely destroyed. And it can be seen in Matt 28 that BOTH body AND soul are DESTROYED in hell fire. DHK - in your point you admit to the complete and total destruction of the cities. Jude makes it clear that this destruction by eternal fire applies to BOTH Sodom and Gomorrah AND the CITIES around them.

It is impossible to escape.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

More than a thousand years after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorroh, Jesus said:

Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Was he saying that the buildings would last another thousand years,
or that the people would have repented and be saved for all eternity?

 

[BobRyan]

Jude
7 just as [b]Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities[/b] around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.
[

They are “destroyed” – reduced to ashes by that “eternal fire” from God sent as ‘judgment” as the “punishment” of eternal fire..

Luke 17:29-30
29 but on the day that Lot went out from [b]Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven and destroyed them all.[/b]
30 "It will be [b]just the same[/b] on the day that the Son of Man is revealed.



2 Peter 2:6
and if He condemned [b]the cities[/b] of Sodom and Gomorrah to [b]destruction by reducing them to ashes[/b], having made them an example to those who would live ungodly lives thereafter;

 

[BobRyan]

More than a thousand years after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorroh, Jesus said:

Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Was he saying that the buildings would last another thousand years,
or that the people would have repented and be saved for all eternity?

Christ went TO the cities and towns and did His works IN them -- when he speaks of those works and the idea that IF they had been done IN SODOM -- he speaks of the cities and the people in the cities SEEING those works.

By contrast --In Matt 11 Capernaum represents the PEOPLE of Capernaum as does Jerusalem in Matt 23.

But it can not be denied that "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them" INCLUDES the CITIES..

It can not be denied that they are "Exhibited" (seen) "as an example of destruction by ETERNAL fire".

You have to admit this would be much easier for you if you did not hold to your prior bias when coming to these texts.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

More than a thousand years after the destruction of Sodom and Gomorroh, Jesus said:

Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Was he saying that the buildings would last another thousand years,
or that the people would have repented and be saved for all eternity?

I don't argue with the Scripture you quote Bob.
Just answer the question.

 

[BobRyan]

"Thou Capernaum" - the city AND the citizens - the people.

"IT would have remained until this day" the CITY and citizens. Where BUILDINGs remain but of course CITIZENs remain only the way that PEOPLE remain over time. NEITHER the city NOR its citizens remain until this day.

Just stating the obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

Christ went TO the cities and towns and did His works IN them -- when he speaks of those works and the idea that IF they had been done IN SODOM -- he speaks of the cities and the people in the cities SEEING those works.

By contrast --In Matt 11 Capernaum represents the PEOPLE of Capernaum as does Jerusalem in Matt 23.

But it can not be denied that "Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them" INCLUDES the CITIES..
Bob

Cities don't last for a thosand years--not the same buildings (if that is what Christ referring to as you claim).
But cities are composed of people who have spirits that last for all eternity. It is the spirit that lives, not the building, not even the body.

 

[BobRyan]

It is not as hard as you pretend.

Cities AND citizens LAST - as we see with Rome -- EVEN when the actual buildings and people wear down and are constantly replaced and kept up.

The point remains.

The difference between Sodom NOT remaining and Rome REMAINING is abundantly obvious to all!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[DHK]

"Thou Capernaum" - the city AND the citizens - the people.

"IT would have remained until this day" the CITY and citizens. Where BUILDINGs remain but of course CITIZENs remain only the way that PEOPLE remain over time. NEITHER the city NOR its citizens remain until this day.

Just stating the obvious.

In Christ,

Bob

You are not stating the obvious. How many buildings in this world do you know of today that are a thousand years old. Your interpretation is ridiculous.

 

[Bible-boy]

Hello Bob,

It would seem that you are taking part of the passage in Jude way out of context. Verse 6 is speaking about the punishment of the disobedient angels (those that fell with Satan). Then Jude switches to the example of the people of Sodom and Gomorrah being punished for indulging in sexual immorality. Thus, God killed those people physically with fire and brimstone from heaven. This fire and brimstone likewise completely destroyed the cities of the area. The context here, with respect to the sinful people (i.e. their souls), is talking strictly about the eternal punishment of their souls by eternal fire. The context of the passage clearly is not trying to make the claim that the actual physical location of the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah is undergoing the same punishment by eternal fire.

 

[Shiloh]

You have to admit this would be much easier for you if you did not hold to your prior bias when coming to these texts.

Bob

You mean like the anti Christian teaching of the JW's and the SDA's?