Hell is:

And Hell is just beyond your fingertips, but then, so is heaven.

Cheers,

Jim

 

Some say, "Its not so bad, at least there I'll be rid of all those religeous nuts!" Of course it may not be "so bad." The Bible, however, describes a place where once one arrives, he would give ANYTHING to get out! Too late!

In Christ
Michael

 

Hell is the complete absence of God. Those who think God isn't present in their lives now are going to realize how present he really was...

 

Hell is hot.

 

I am not sure that God is totally absent from Hell. His benefits are definitely absent. His comforting presence is certainly absent. I rather think that all souls will be ever conscious of God for all eternity.

Cheers,

Jim

 

John 3v36,

You have nearly said it all in your first post.

I believe in a literal Hell.

Thank God that for those of us who love Jesus there is ' . . . NOW no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.' [Romans 8:1] Thank the Lord for His proffered security in Christ. [I Thessalonians 4:16d]

 

I believe in a literal hell as described in the bible...a place of misery and the absence of God. I've always been disturbed by those people who think that hell will be one big party....how tragic that they are so deceived and aren't really interested in hearing the truth.

Priscilla Ann

 

Then, you believe that God is not ubiquitous?

Cheers,

Jim

 

I used to believe that hell was the absence of God but recently I read that those in hell will experience God's presence by feeling God's wrath. That seems to make sense.

 

You are missing two very important texts.

Rev 14 - 10-11 - Hell inflicts suffering and torment (with fire and brimstone ) upon the wicked - and it is all done "IN" the presence of the Lamb and of His holy ones.

Matt 10 -- Hell is where God destroys both body and soul.

28 ""Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.


In Christ,

Bob

 

Bob Ryan,

I have not read your passage in a long time. It is a frightful truth to those who die without Christ, or take the 'mark of the beast' during the future Great Tribulation. Hell is a horrible place to enter.

You said, '10 he also will drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is
mixed in full strength in the cup of His anger; and he will be
tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the
holy ones AND in the presence of the Lamb.
11 ""And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever;
they have no rest day and night, those who worship the beast
and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name.''

 

"Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Doesn't this point to hell possibly being 'anihilation'?

 

Jude, Annihilation, though taught in some circles down through the ages, has no basis in scripture as a whole.

In this verse, it must be noted that the writer says, "Do not fear those who kill the body..." and then, "who is able to destroy....." The words "kill" and "destroy" have far different meanings. This is the ruin, the perdition, the destruction of all that makes existence desireable. There are far too many verses with reference to the eternality of the soul, in either the saved or lost estate to interpret this one as being a reference to annihilation.

Cheers,

Jim

 

I would agree that the greater-portion of Scripture points to an eternal suffering of the damned. ( Interestingly though, it -hell- is also called 'the 2nd death'. For the sake OF the damned, I would opt for annihilation. But I suspect that it is not the case.)

 

I've read this as well. One of the Church Fathers (I can't remember if it's John of Damascus, Maximus the Confessor, Isaac the Syrian, or None of the Above ) said that the "fire of hell is the love of God" which the unsaved experience as eternal torment.

 

Doubting Thomas,

'Is this not the most extreme of all paradoxes?

You said about the church father saying, the ' . . . fire of hell is the love of God" which the unsaved experience as eternal torment.'

I do not see a scintilla of Divine love in being in Hell; on the other hand I do see justice and vengeance coming from Christ in placing people there. And then there is the added encumbrance of eternal fire that welcomes those who neglect Jesus and His proffered salvation. Ending up in Hell is hardly 'cutting the sinners a break,' via His love.

I have at times quoted the Church Fathers but they were not always right in their thoughts. The only ones we can trust to be true are the Apostolate who were under Divine inspiration and careful scrutiny, as they wrote down the thoughts coming from Almighty God.

Regards . . . .
Ray

 

Ray,

You are misreading what I wrote. I'm quoting a particular CF and not necessarily agreeing 100%, but the idea is interesting to think about.

According to this line of thinking, the argument can go as follows:

God does not change. (Malachi 3:6) This refers to His immutability.

God is "a Consuming Fire". (Hebrews 12:29) This refers to His absolute Holiness.

God is Love (1 John 4:8).

God doesn't get "angry" in the sense that we get angry, as He is Love and does not change [Here I might say that God could be eternally "angry" with sin.] Therefore, Scripture passages speaking about God "repenting" or becoming angry should be seen as anthropomorphisms.

How we experience the "consuming fire" of God depends on our nature, whether or not we are "saved". An illustration could be that sun melts wax but hardens clay. Similarly, God's "fire" purifies the saved and torments the damned.

I guess that would be the gist of the argument. It may seem paradoxical how love can be experinenced as torment, but there are many things in the Christian faith that seem paradoxical to us (ex. The Holy Trinity).

Again, this is just one viewpoint, and not necessarily the absolute right one.

 

Clearly.

But the torment is still as described in Rev 14:10-11 - with the entire event taking place IN the presence of the LAMB AND of his holy ones. Both statements are true.

In Christ,

Bob

 

Yes indeed. Rev 14 paints it as an extremely horrible event - and it describes the event as taking place IN the presence of the Lamb AND of His holy ones.

It is both terrible AND fully witnessed by (and even fully occuring in the presence of) the Lamb and His holy ones.

In Christ,

Bob