Help me to understand.

[percho]

When God created Adam in his (God's) image in Gen 1:27 Was Adam both male and female in the image of God and later God made a helper fit for Adam by making the female/woman from Adam?

Did God do this with the animals or did he initially make a male and female of each animal?

Could God have had a Son by a woman (the helper taken from the man created in the image of God) if he had not done as described in Gen. 1:27 and 2:7,20-22.

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (Adam in the image of God male and female) And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him. And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof; And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

Adam was a natural man 1 Cor 15:45,46 natural from ψυχικός psychikos breath belonged of. Had to have the spirit of the breath of life from God to be living and to sustain life. And Adam was the figure of him to come Jesus of Nazareth the Son of God and the woman taken from the man created in the image of God male and female. And to this man, Adam, God said, YLT and of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, thou dost not eat of it, for in the day of thine eating of it -- dying thou dost die.'
Did the Son of God have to die that death in order to redeem Adam from death?

Is this relative to, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, that is before he created the man in his image?

Did the Son of God die for sin or not?

I did not want to trample on the OP of The Biblicist thread, What happened to the resurrected FLESHLY Body of Christ?

Just wanted to show how the living soul, the Son of God was able to die for our sins.

DHK

The Septuagint translated shĕ'owl into Hades, "the place of the departed dead," people, souls. Jesus was resurrected from Hades neither did his flesh see corruption.

Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days. Why is that verse in the word and is it relative to three days and three nights and corruption?

Would you show me from the word of God where the bosom of the Abraham has anything to do with Paradise and also from the word of God where the Paradise of God, where the tree of life is found, has anything to do with Hades. Scripture please.

 

[The Biblicist]

When God created Adam in his (God's) image in Gen 1:27 Was Adam both male and female in the image of God and later God made a helper fit for Adam by making the female/woman from Adam?

NO! Geneiss 1:27 merely summarizes what God on day six. He created both a man and a woman on day six. Genesis 2 goes into more detail how he did it. He created the woman by taking a rib from Adam.

Did God do this with the animals or did he initially make a male and female of each animal?

He created the animals in pairs or else they could not "reproduce after their own kind"

Could God have had a Son by a woman (the helper taken from the man created in the image of God) if he had not done as described in Gen. 1:27 and 2:7,20-22.

God is a spirit without physical reproduction capability nor would He need to have sex with a woman to produce a human being as he could have merely spoken a man into existence as he did all other physical life.

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life;

More literally "the spirit of LIVES" - All animal life were living souls but man was made in the "image of God" and God's image is "invisible" (Col. 1:15). God did not have literal "breath" or a literal "body" and so that cannot be part of God's "image." God has a "soul" and it does not refer to any material substance. God has "life" but he does not have "blood." Hence, the "image" of God is not found in MATERIAL SUBSTANCES (body, blood, breath) as ALL ANIMALS share that but they are not made in the "image" of God.

God made man to FELLOWSHIP with on a SPIRITUAL level because God is a spirit and they that worship God must worship God "IN SPIRIT." Hence, the plural "spirit of lives." Man was created with a "spirit" as well as with a "soul" (1 Thes. 5:23; heb. 4:12; etc.) as a THREE FOLD being (among other likenesses of God) in the "image" of God.

1. The human "spirit" was designed for fellowship with the spiritual world
2. The human "soul" is the seat of self-consciousness - inner world
3. The human "body" is the seat of outer-world consciousness

The human spirit and soul provide man the capabilities of worship as worship is in the realm of the "spirit" - they who worship God must worship him "in spirit" and "our spirit bears witness with His spirit" etc.

The human spirit and soul provide man with conscience or inner ability to discern moral righteousness.

The human spirit and soul provide man with rational abilty and accountable free choice.

In addition, man is a "living soul" in regard to PHYSICAL animal life possessing the same kind of PHYSICAL life that animals possess - breath, blood, biological life but none of these attributes are the "image" of God.

Therefore man was created with SPRITIUAL LIFE in addition to PHYSICAL LIFE and the spiritual life had to do with his ability to fellowship with God on a SPIRITUAL REALM through the human "spirit" which animals do not possess. Thus he could die on the day he ate but not physically die until 930 years later. Thus we can be "dead" in tresspass and sins SPIRITUALLY but yet PHYSICALLY alive (Eph. 2:1). So our sins can SEPARATE us from God (Spiritually) while remaining PHYSICALLY and MATERISTICALLY and self-consciously (soul) alive.

Did the Son of God have to die that death in order to redeem Adam from death?

Is this relative to, the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world, that is before he created the man in his image?

Did the Son of God die for sin or not?

As man Christ experienced Both PHYSICAL and SPIRITUAL and both were accomplished on the cross before He was buried:

1 Pet. 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

I did not want to trample on the OP of The Biblicist thread, What happened to the resurrected FLESHLY Body of Christ?

Paul says what was "dead" was "raised" up again and the context is his body - 1 Cor. 15:13-19

Jesus said concerning his spirit that the very day of his PHYSICAL death the theif would be with him in paradise. That would occur TO DAY!

The Septuagint translated shĕ'owl into Hades, "the place of the departed dead," people, souls. Jesus was resurrected from Hades neither did his flesh see corruption.

The KJV translates "sheol" half the time "grave" and half the time "hell." The truth is that "sheol" is the place of "THE DEAD" but the spirits of God's people NEVER DIE (Jn. 11:25) "believeth thou this?" Sheol is the place of all dead BODIES of the just and unjust but only the place of DEAD spirits of the lost. The Bible speaks of sheol in two aspects; "lowest" sheol - the place of the wicked DEAD (spiritually separated) spirts of lost men. Upper sheol or the mouth of sheol where the bones of men or dead BODIES are buried - the grave where the dead of bodies of all men - the grave. The body of Jesus was placed in "sheol" UPPER SHEOL the grave and his "soul" or the PHYSICAL LIFE represented by the body was placed in the grave. Hebrew parallelism.

Jesus said, Take ye away the stone. Martha, the sister of him that was dead, saith unto him, Lord, by this time he stinketh: for he hath been [dead] four days. Why is that verse in the word and is it relative to three days and three nights and corruption?

The body of Christ NEVER SAW CORRUPTION in the grave because he never sinned personally. He gave up his life, no one took it from Him. Jesus also told Martha "he that liveth and believeth on me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believeth thou this?" The spirit of Larzerus NEVER DIED just his body. The spirit of believes NEVER DIE as to be absent from the body is to be present WITH THE LORD.

Would you show me from the word of God where the bosom of the Abraham has anything to do with Paradise and also from the word of God where the Paradise of God, where the tree of life is found, has anything to do with Hades. Scripture please.

The "bosom of Abraham" was a colloquial Jewish expression that represented Jewish expectations at death because they claimed to be the "children of Abraham" and to die was to depart and go to be with Abraham. Jesus said that God is not the God of the "dead" but he was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob proving that only the body of Abraham was in the grave not his conscious self - spriit and soul. Jesus and Paul both said that Abraham BELIEVED in Christ (Jn. 8; Gal. 3:6-8) and Jesus told Martha that those who believe in him "SHALL NEVER DIE. Believeth thou this?"

Here is your problem Percho - YOU DON'T beleive this! You don't believe Jesus's testimony about the believing dead! Instead you believe the JW, Mormon, SDA false doctrine of man's nature - man=breath, blood, body=life period no different than animal life. You embrace false doctrine and thus repudiate the words of Christ and that is why you cannot understand the Scriptures.

Jn. 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Think percho! Why would Jesus say this to Martha at this time, at this place at the grave site of Lazerus? Would you say this to a loved one at the gravesite of one who just physically died three days ago????? Think Percho!

 

[billwald]

There is no telling how many centuries passed from the end of the 6th day to the creation of Eve.

 

[The Biblicist]

There is no telling how many centuries passed from the end of the 6th day to the creation of Eve.

Funny, the Omnisiciennt unerring man who said "I am the TRUTH" repeatedly said "FROM THE BEGINNING" or "AT THE BEGINNING" of creation when he discussed Adam and Eve!

All seven days were the "beginning" of something God did different than the day before. However, if days were centuries, thousands of years, millions then the Lord sure used deceptive langauge when he referred to their creation "AT the beginning" and "FROM the beginning" OF CREATION?

 

[billwald]

He also said a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. So much for his working calender.

 

[DHK]

He also said a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. So much for his working calender.

That is simply a figure of speech, a simile to be specific, that teaches the timelessness of God. With God there is no time.

Think of this.
The plants were created on the third day, and the sun, moon and stars on the fourth day. If there were any long period of time such centuries or thousands of years how the plants survive until the sun was created?

Second, the term "creeping things" is not found until the sixth day, the same day that man is created. Creeping things include such insects as bees and wasps. The plants were created in day three and the bees created in day six. Four days have passed. Four days with a thousand years of days and nights in between. Bees and plants need each other to survive. Both would die out if one or the other do not exist. All of the fruit bearing trees, the plants that have flowers would have died out without the bees.

In Genesis chapter five the record says that Adam lived to 930.
Adam was created on the sixth day and God rested or ceased from creating on the seventh day. Was there another thousand year period between the sixth day and seventh day? If so then the record of Genesis 5 is wrong. He would have to be at least 1,930 years old wouldn't he?

To think that the day age theory could make any sense at all is ludicrous. It defies all the laws of science and puts nature in chaos instead of harmony.

 

[percho]

NO! Geneiss 1:27 merely summarizes what God on day six. He created both a man and a woman on day six. Genesis 2 goes into more detail how he did it. He created the woman by taking a rib from Adam.



He created the animals in pairs or else they could not "reproduce after their own kind"



God is a spirit without physical reproduction capability nor would He need to have sex with a woman to produce a human being as he could have merely spoken a man into existence as he did all other physical life.



More literally "the spirit of LIVES" - All animal life were living souls but man was made in the "image of God" and God's image is "invisible" (Col. 1:15). God did not have literal "breath" or a literal "body" and so that cannot be part of God's "image." God has a "soul" and it does not refer to any material substance. God has "life" but he does not have "blood." Hence, the "image" of God is not found in MATERIAL SUBSTANCES (body, blood, breath) as ALL ANIMALS share that but they are not made in the "image" of God.

God made man to FELLOWSHIP with on a SPIRITUAL level because God is a spirit and they that worship God must worship God "IN SPIRIT." Hence, the plural "spirit of lives." Man was created with a "spirit" as well as with a "soul" (1 Thes. 5:23; heb. 4:12; etc.) as a THREE FOLD being (among other likenesses of God) in the "image" of God.

1. The human "spirit" was designed for fellowship with the spiritual world
2. The human "soul" is the seat of self-consciousness - inner world
3. The human "body" is the seat of outer-world consciousness

The human spirit and soul provide man the capabilities of worship as worship is in the realm of the "spirit" - they who worship God must worship him "in spirit" and "our spirit bears witness with His spirit" etc.

The human spirit and soul provide man with conscience or inner ability to discern moral righteousness.

The human spirit and soul provide man with rational abilty and accountable free choice.

In addition, man is a "living soul" in regard to PHYSICAL animal life possessing the same kind of PHYSICAL life that animals possess - breath, blood, biological life but none of these attributes are the "image" of God.

Therefore man was created with SPRITIUAL LIFE in addition to PHYSICAL LIFE and the spiritual life had to do with his ability to fellowship with God on a SPIRITUAL REALM through the human "spirit" which animals do not possess. Thus he could die on the day he ate but not physically die until 930 years later. Thus we can be "dead" in tresspass and sins SPIRITUALLY but yet PHYSICALLY alive (Eph. 2:1). So our sins can SEPARATE us from God (Spiritually) while remaining PHYSICALLY and MATERISTICALLY and self-consciously (soul) alive.





As man Christ experienced Both PHYSICAL and SPIRITUAL and both were accomplished on the cross before He was buried:

1 Pet. 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

Mt 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?






Paul says what was "dead" was "raised" up again and the context is his body - 1 Cor. 15:13-19

Jesus said concerning his spirit that the very day of his PHYSICAL death the theif would be with him in paradise. That would occur TO DAY!




The KJV translates "sheol" half the time "grave" and half the time "hell." The truth is that "sheol" is the place of "THE DEAD" but the spirits of God's people NEVER DIE (Jn. 11:25) "believeth thou this?" Sheol is the place of all dead BODIES of the just and unjust but only the place of DEAD spirits of the lost. The Bible speaks of sheol in two aspects; "lowest" sheol - the place of the wicked DEAD (spiritually separated) spirts of lost men. Upper sheol or the mouth of sheol where the bones of men or dead BODIES are buried - the grave where the dead of bodies of all men - the grave. The body of Jesus was placed in "sheol" UPPER SHEOL the grave and his "soul" or the PHYSICAL LIFE represented by the body was placed in the grave. Hebrew parallelism.



The body of Christ NEVER SAW CORRUPTION in the grave because he never sinned personally. He gave up his life, no one took it from Him. Jesus also told Martha "he that liveth and believeth on me SHALL NEVER DIE. Believeth thou this?" The spirit of Larzerus NEVER DIED just his body. The spirit of believes NEVER DIE as to be absent from the body is to be present WITH THE LORD.



The "bosom of Abraham" was a colloquial Jewish expression that represented Jewish expectations at death because they claimed to be the "children of Abraham" and to die was to depart and go to be with Abraham. Jesus said that God is not the God of the "dead" but he was the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob proving that only the body of Abraham was in the grave not his conscious self - spriit and soul. Jesus and Paul both said that Abraham BELIEVED in Christ (Jn. 8; Gal. 3:6-8) and Jesus told Martha that those who believe in him "SHALL NEVER DIE. Believeth thou this?"

Here is your problem Percho - YOU DON'T beleive this! You don't believe Jesus's testimony about the believing dead! Instead you believe the JW, Mormon, SDA false doctrine of man's nature - man=breath, blood, body=life period no different than animal life. You embrace false doctrine and thus repudiate the words of Christ and that is why you cannot understand the Scriptures.

Jn. 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Think percho! Why would Jesus say this to Martha at this time, at this place at the grave site of Lazerus? Would you say this to a loved one at the gravesite of one who just physically died three days ago????? Think Percho!

Thank you for examining this thread and giving your critique.

I am only going to cover a couple things right now and will get to some of the others later.

Do you not think the man was created as he was, along with the helper of him, for the very reason that before he was created the Lamb, who would be a man, the only begotten Son of God was going to be slain?

This Son the sacrificial Lamb was going to come into the world through birth by the woman taken from the man. I do not know what kind of sex was involved if any but I do know what the word says. The virgin was found to be with child that was being generated in her was out of Spirit Holy. Why a virgin? After all God could spoken the Christ into existence if he had so chosen. Why do we argue so hard for the virgin birth? However the Christ then would not have been the seed of Abrahan nor David.

Believest thou this? ------I do.----What?

Paul says. Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

Before the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ, there had been resurrections. I don't think Paul was speaking of this type of resurrection from the dead but resurrection to eternal life.

Heb 11:25 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: ----What is a better resurrection?

Now I ask you if Jesus the Christ had not been resurrected from the dead, with eternal life {Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation (life) unto all them that obey him; Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin death; but the gift of God eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.}, would there be any life from the dead for anyone? What does through mean? It means that because he is the author he has received, inherited and it can be given from me to you. Heirs and joint heirs of God with Jesus the Christ. He has inherited, we have been given the Holy Spirit through Jesus making us heirs to also inherit what he has inherited. NO?

Jesus the prophet of God like unto Moses said.

John 11:25,26 I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (by resurrection) And whosoever liveth (by resurrection) and believeth in me shall never die. (again) Believest thou this?

Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Luke 20:35,36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

 

[DHK]

Do you not think the man was created as he was, along with the helper of him, for the very reason that before he was created the Lamb, who would be a man, the only begotten Son of God was going to be slain?

God is omniscient. When he created Adam and Eve he knew that they would sin, and knew that God the Son would of a necessity have to come and die for mankind.

This Son the sacrificial Lamb was going to come into the world through birth by the woman taken from the man. I do not know what kind of sex was involved if any but I do know what the word says. The virgin was found to be with child that was being generated in her was out of Spirit Holy. Why a virgin?

First, there was no sex involved.
Second, Christ had to be born of a virgin to avoid inheriting man's sin nature which is passed on through the seed of a man. Thus in Genesis 3:15 we have the prophecy that Christ would be born from the seed of a woman.

After all God could spoken the Christ into existence if he had so chosen. Why do we argue so hard for the virgin birth? However the Christ then would not have been the seed of Abrahan nor David.

Christ was both fully man and fully Christ at the same time. He was fully man in every sense that we are (from birth to death), so that he could sympathize with our infirmities, with our trials, etc.

Believest thou this? ------I do.----What?

In the physical bodily resurrection of Christ, and in the future of ours as well.

Paul says. Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

Before the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ, there had been resurrections. I don't think Paul was speaking of this type of resurrection from the dead but resurrection to eternal life.

There was never a "permanent" resurrection. For example when Lazarus was raised, he still had to die. Jesus is the firstfruits. He is the first one to have been permanently raised from the dead to live forevermore.

Heb 11:25 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: ----What is a better resurrection?

The better resurrection will happen in the future when Jesus comes again at the rapture. Then every believer, OT and NT will be raised from the dead. Resurrection only applies to the body. In the OT when women received their dead raised to life again, it would be more like "resuscitated." IOW, it was not a permanent resurrection. It would have been like coming out of a coma. I am not lessening the miracle any. I am only saying it wasn't the resurrection that Christ was speaking of.

Now I ask you if Jesus the Christ had not been resurrected from the dead, with eternal life {Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation (life) unto all them that obey him;

He gives eternal life to all them that believe on him.

Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin death; but the gift of God eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.}, would there be any life from the dead for anyone? What does through mean?

Salvation is through Christ alone. It is not through works, through any other god like Buddha. It is through Christ and him alone.

It means that because he is the author he has received, inherited and it can be given from me to you. Heirs and joint heirs of God with Jesus the Christ. He has inherited, we have been given the Holy Spirit through Jesus making us heirs to also inherit what he has inherited. NO?

If we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ--his death, burial and physical resurrection (the gospel message), on what he has done for us, then we can have eternal life and we also become heirs of God and joint heirs of Jesus Christ.

 

[saturneptune]

Christ was both fully man and fully Christ at the same time. He was fully man in every sense that we are (from birth to death), so that he could sympathize with our infirmities, with our trials, etc.

He is also fully God.

 

[The Biblicist]

He also said a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. So much for his working calender.

Jesus did? Where did Jesus ever say that? I think you are confusing Peter with Jesus and you are confusing "as" (which indicates a simile) with "is"???

 

[HeirofSalvation]

There is no telling how many centuries passed from the end of the 6th day to the creation of Eve.

Sure there is....zero, If you actually study and understand the text (it takes a little bit of work) You know they were created on the same day...along with all of the animals (land) as well, God also planted the garden of Eden and placed the man in it on that day, he also re-demonstrated the creative acts in front of Adam on that same day....only, in lieu of birds coming from water (for instance) he fashioned them from the ground. (These were activities done in the Garden ONLY, however). It was a busy day. If you would study the text in order to learn what God tells us rather than spout the confusions of scoffers who neither understand nor believe what is being taught, you wouldn't post statements like this.

 

[The Biblicist]

Thank you for examining this thread and giving your critique.

I am only going to cover a couple things right now and will get to some of the others later.

Do you not think the man was created as he was, along with the helper of him, for the very reason that before he was created the Lamb, who would be a man, the only begotten Son of God was going to be slain?

This Son the sacrificial Lamb was going to come into the world through birth by the woman taken from the man. I do not know what kind of sex was involved if any but I do know what the word says. The virgin was found to be with child that was being generated in her was out of Spirit Holy. Why a virgin? After all God could spoken the Christ into existence if he had so chosen. Why do we argue so hard for the virgin birth? However the Christ then would not have been the seed of Abrahan nor David.

Believest thou this? ------I do.----What?

Paul says. Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

Before the death and resurrection of Jesus the Christ, there had been resurrections. I don't think Paul was speaking of this type of resurrection from the dead but resurrection to eternal life.

Heb 11:25 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: ----What is a better resurrection?

Now I ask you if Jesus the Christ had not been resurrected from the dead, with eternal life {Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation (life) unto all them that obey him; Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin death; but the gift of God eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.}, would there be any life from the dead for anyone? What does through mean? It means that because he is the author he has received, inherited and it can be given from me to you. Heirs and joint heirs of God with Jesus the Christ. He has inherited, we have been given the Holy Spirit through Jesus making us heirs to also inherit what he has inherited. NO?

Jesus the prophet of God like unto Moses said.

John 11:25,26 I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (by resurrection) And whosoever liveth (by resurrection) and believeth in me shall never die. (again) Believest thou this?

Rev. 20:6 Blessed and holy [is] he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

Luke 20:35,36 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage: Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Your thread title is "help me understand" but I am thinking what you really mean is "help me teach you something." Do you really want help to understand or do you want to help us understand what you already believe?

1. Jesus is the "firstborn from the dead." He is the very first to rise from the dead WITH COMPLETE VICTORY OVER DEATH never to die again.

2. The term "resurrection" is NEVER used of the spirit of man. That is called "born again" "regeneration" "quickened" or to make man spiritually "alive". The term "resurrect" means to "rise up" or "stand up" but the spirit in man is STATIONARY and only SEPARATED from God. hence, your interpetations by parenthesis is wrong:

John 11:25,26 I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (by resurrection) And whosoever liveth (by resurrection) and believeth in me shall never die. (again) Believest thou this?

Note that he is both "the resurrection" AND "the life." Resurrection for the body and life for the spirit of man. The LOST are resurrected BODILY also but not to the resurrection OF LIFE but of ETERNAL DEATH. LIFE and DEATH in regard to the spirit of man are both STATES OF EXISTENCE. The LOST shall be resurrected BODILY and their spirits rejoiced with their body IN DEATH - ETERNAL death of both the body and the spirit of the lost as that is an eternal CONDITION of SEPARATION from God rather than existence versus non-existence.

He is not denying that Martha will not PHYSICALLY DIE and be buried even though she does believe in him. He is denying that "although she were dead physically [like Lazerus], yet shall she live" physically at the resurrection just as he would soon illustrate by raising the dead body of her brother from the grave. It is not the resurrection of the body that obtains life for the spirit but the other way around. He that LIVETH (regenerated) and beleiveth in me shall NEVER die SPIRITUALLY although they will die physically.

The virign birth instead of direct creation outside of the existent human race is essential for several reasons.

1. To fulfill prophecy - Isa. 7:14

2. To avoid inheriting the sin nature passed down through the human father

3. To be partakers of the current humanity instead of another specie in order to reclaim what Adam lost for his specie.

4. To be fully human, yet without sin and still fully God.


Take careful heed to the following words. The wrong view of man's nature will make it impossible to understand the right view of man's salvation. The wrong view of God's righteous demands will make it impossible to understand the right view of man's salvation. Your view of man is wrong and your view of God's righteous demands is wrong and so your view of man's salvation is also wrong. Until you grasp these things you will never understand the Biblical teaching of man or salvation.

 

[percho]

Your thread title is "help me understand" but I am thinking what you really mean is "help me teach you something." Do you really want help to understand or do you want to help us understand what you already believe?

1. Jesus is the "firstborn from the dead." He is the very first to rise from the dead WITH COMPLETE VICTORY OVER DEATH never to die again.

2. The term "resurrection" is NEVER used of the spirit of man. That is called "born again" "regeneration" "quickened" or to make man spiritually "alive". The term "resurrect" means to "rise up" or "stand up" but the spirit in man is STATIONARY and only SEPARATED from God. hence, your interpetations by parenthesis is wrong:

John 11:25,26 I am the resurrection and the life, he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: (by resurrection) And whosoever liveth (by resurrection) and believeth in me shall never die. (again) Believest thou this?

Note that he is both "the resurrection" AND "the life." Resurrection for the body and life for the spirit of man. The LOST are resurrected BODILY also but not to the resurrection OF LIFE but of ETERNAL DEATH. LIFE and DEATH in regard to the spirit of man are both STATES OF EXISTENCE. The LOST shall be resurrected BODILY and their spirits rejoiced with their body IN DEATH - ETERNAL death of both the body and the spirit of the lost as that is an eternal CONDITION of SEPARATION from God rather than existence versus non-existence.

He is not denying that Martha will not PHYSICALLY DIE and be buried even though she does believe in him. He is denying that "although she were dead physically [like Lazerus], yet shall she live" physically at the resurrection just as he would soon illustrate by raising the dead body of her brother from the grave. It is not the resurrection of the body that obtains life for the spirit but the other way around. He that LIVETH (regenerated) and beleiveth in me shall NEVER die SPIRITUALLY although they will die physically.

The virign birth instead of direct creation outside of the existent human race is essential for several reasons.

1. To fulfill prophecy - Isa. 7:14

2. To avoid inheriting the sin nature passed down through the human father

3. To be partakers of the current humanity instead of another specie in order to reclaim what Adam lost for his specie.

4. To be fully human, yet without sin and still fully God.


Take careful heed to the following words. The wrong view of man's nature will make it impossible to understand the right view of man's salvation. The wrong view of God's righteous demands will make it impossible to understand the right view of man's salvation. Your view of man is wrong and your view of God's righteous demands is wrong and so your view of man's salvation is also wrong. Until you grasp these things you will never understand the Biblical teaching of man or salvation.

You got something correct.

And you do not believe the following. You do not believe man really dies for you believe there is something about the created man to be immortal. You do not believe God through Jesus the Christ, took part of the same, for you believe he stayed the same plus also became the other, therefore it was impossible for him to die to satisfy righteous demands of God. The righteousness of God is God giving again Life to One who did no sin yet became sin and died to to pay the righteous demand of God. Life that actually means something is life that would be forever, eternal life, and it is the gift of God and is the righteousness of God given to his sinless Son who died for the sin of the world.

It is you who does not understand the nature of man not the nature of the Son of Man the Son of God, who is presently today both.

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; ---This was priority 1.

Hebrews 2:14,15

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. --- Priority 2 which brings glory to God for they receive eternal life through the only one given that life that actually deserved to receive the righteousness of God.

It was the death of Jesus, the faith of Jesus that removed man from being under the law subject to the penalty of sin and allows him to be imputed with the righteousness of God and be put under the grace of God.

Romans 3:19,20 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin. Gal. 3:22 First part, But the scripture hath concluded all under sin,

Romans 3:21,22 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: Gal 3:22 last part; that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

Gal 3:23 But before (the) faith came, ---what faith? how is man justified/made righteous? By the blood the death of Jesus. ---we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.

Gal 3:25 But after that (the) faith is come,----Jesus dying for the sin of the world--- we are no longer under a schoolmaster. (The Law)

Because of the righteousness of God by the grace of giving again life to the Righteousness One who had died for all.

For by grace through (the) faith are ye saved, the gift of God.

It is by that same faith, that is the faith of Jesus (his death) the promise of Holy Spirit was given. John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

Gal. 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through (the) faith.

Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What faith did they hear of?

Verse 1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?



Of course your immortal soul will not allow you to believe this.

That soul through an immortal body needs to put on immorality, that is, the righteousness of God, Eternal Life, our, I go to prepare a place for you, our eternal house from heaven.

Col. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. ----You were correct about this and currently he is the only so born, but not forever---For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

Will see you in the kingdom of God.

 

[billwald]

>>He also said a thousand years is like a day and a day is like a thousand years. So much for his working calender.


>Jesus did? Where did Jesus ever say that? I think you are confusing Peter with Jesus and you are confusing "as" (which indicates a simile) with "is"???

Then words attributed to Jesus are required beliefs but statements made by the apostles are optional? I'll buy that!

 

[DHK]

You got something correct.

And you do not believe the following. You do not believe man really dies for you believe there is something about the created man to be immortal.

Perhaps you need to define death, so that we are on the same page.
James says that death is separation of the spirit from the body. The body will turn to dust (from dust to dust). But the spirit lives on--whether in hell or in heaven. The SDA believes that at death the ungodly (soul, spirit and body) are annihilated. Is that what you believe death is? Annihilation, so that nothing is immortal? You believe SDA doctrine? If God did not create a part of man to be immortal, then what did he create man for? Does not man have a greater purpose in life than a dog or cat, who is not immortal? If man is not immortal then why was he created in the image of God?

You do not believe God through Jesus the Christ, took part of the same, for you believe he stayed the same plus also became the other, therefore it was impossible for him to die to satisfy righteous demands of God.

Chrst was (and is) the second person of the triune Godhead. He always has been. He took upon himself human flesh 2,000 years ago that he might die for the sins of the world. He did not always have that human flesh, but he made himself of no reputation, humbled himself, was born of a virgin, lived and died as a man. He was fully God and and fully man--the God-man. He died, was buried and rose again. He sits at the right hand of the throne of God in his fleshly resurrected body, in which someday he will come again.

In the beginning...was the Word.
And the word became flesh and we beheld his glory.
No man has seen God at any time....the Son....hath declared him.

The righteousness of God is God giving again Life to One who did no sin yet became sin and died to to pay the righteous demand of God.

Jesus said, "I lay my life down; I take it up again. No man takes it from me. Jesus is God. And, yes, Christ died to satisfy the demands of God in paying the penalty for our sins.

Life that actually means something is life that would be forever, eternal life, and it is the gift of God and is the righteousness of God given to his sinless Son who died for the sin of the world.

No, this isn't right. Christ is God. He didn't need eternal life or the righteousness of God given to him. He already had that. He is God. He is righteousness. He is eternal life. Righteousness and eternal life come from Christ. He is the source of them.

It is you who does not understand the nature of man not the nature of the Son of Man the Son of God, who is presently today both.

Christ is the God-man: fully God and fully man at the same time; sitting at the right hand of God, ever making intercession for us. He sits because he has a fleshly resurrected body, a body that is similar to the one that we too will have when he comes again and the resurrection takes place.

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; ---This was priority 1.

That through his death, burial and resurrection

And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. --- Priority 2 which brings glory to God for they receive eternal life through the only one given that life that actually deserved to receive the righteousness of God.

Christ was not "given" life. He rose from the dead. His body rose from the dead. His spirit never died.

It was the death of Jesus, the faith of Jesus that removed man from being under the law subject to the penalty of sin and allows him to be imputed with the righteousness of God and be put under the grace of God.

Romans 3:21,22 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; Even the righteousness of God by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

You do not understand this verse and have misinterpreted it. Christ does not need faith. He is omniscient and perfect. A perfect God needs no faith. Christ is the object of our faith.

Look at another translation:
Romans 3:22 even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ unto all them that believe; for there is no distinction; (ASV)
--We have righteousness because of our faith IN Christ. Christ does not need faith. It is not the "faith of Christ." It is our faith in Christ that gives us a righteous standing.
Because of the righteousness of God by the grace of giving again life to the Righteousness One who had died for all.

For by grace through (the) faith are ye saved, the gift of God.

It is by that same faith, that is the faith of Jesus (his death) the promise of Holy Spirit was given.

Are you deliberately misinterpreting Scripture??
You are saved.
You are saved by grace.
You are saved through faith.
You are not saved "through yourselves" or by acts of your own.
Salvation is a gift of God.
Salvation is not of works
Salvation cannot be boasted of.

Eph.2:8,9 says nothing about faith being from Jesus. It says that salvation is the gift of God, as it does in Romans 6:23: "the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord." It is not faith that is "of Jesus."

Gal. 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

What faith did they hear of?

Verse 1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

They heard the gospel.

Of course your immortal soul will not allow you to believe this.

That soul through an immortal body needs to put on immorality, that is, the righteousness of God, Eternal Life, our, I go to prepare a place for you, our eternal house from heaven.

I have the righteousness of God now.
I have eternal life now.
I have a home in heaven now.
I have immortality now, in the sense that I know I am going to heaven.
I await the redemption of my body.

Col. 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. ----You were correct about this and currently he is the only so born, but not forever---For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate [to be] conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

It simply means preeminent, not born first. He was not created but eternal, from everlasting to everlasting He is God.

 

[percho]

----

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; first part Romans 8:17 What that says along with the two previous verses is, those who God has given the Spirit of God will inherit along with Jesus Christ from God the Father. By having been given the Spirit of God we become heirs not yet inheritors of God. ---When? When will be be inheritors rather than heirs?

You know and I know.

Now here is something we shall be inheritors of that we currently are heirs of:
Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly (the Holy Spirit making us heirs) through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Has Jesus inherited that of which we are joint heirs of with him and if the answer to be yes, when did he inherit it?

You know and I know he has. We are told that the Son of God was appointed, that is made, heir of all things. Has he inherited all things?
Has he been given by God the Father who raised him from the dead all things?

Here is something we are said to be an heir of with him; Last part of that same above Romans 8: 17 if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. (with him, understood)

Has God the Father given him glory? Just what is glory?

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

What do you believe that glory to be?

Did God the Father really give things to the Son?

Was it imperative the Son, Jesus inherit from God his Father in order for other men to also inherit from God?

 

[percho]

DHK

And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; first part Romans 8:17 What that says along with the two previous verses is, those who God has given the Spirit of God will inherit along with Jesus Christ from God the Father. By having been given the Spirit of God we become heirs not yet inheritors of God. ---When? When will be be inheritors rather than heirs?

You know and I know.

Now here is something we shall be inheritors of that we currently are heirs of:
Titus 3:6,7 Which he shed on us abundantly (the Holy Spirit making us heirs) through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Has Jesus inherited that of which we are joint heirs of with him and if the answer to be yes, when did he inherit it?

You know and I know he has. We are told that the Son of God was appointed, that is made, heir of all things. Has he inherited all things?
Has he been given by God the Father who raised him from the dead all things?

Here is something we are said to be an heir of with him; Last part of that same above Romans 8: 17 if so be that we suffer with [him], that we may be also glorified together. (with him, understood)

Has God the Father given him glory? Just what is glory?

1 Peter 1:21 Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God.

What do you believe that glory to be?

Did God the Father really give things to the Son?

Was it imperative the Son, Jesus inherit from God his Father in order for other men to also inherit from God?



Jesus is the last Adam in whose image the image of God we can be made. That is where out immortality and eternal life will come from not from the first man Adam.