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History of dress (next question)

Discussion in 'Baptist History' started by Walls, Aug 29, 2003.

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  1. Walls

    Walls New Member

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    As some of you know, I have been studying the history of several different issues. This next question is not intended to challenge anyones position or to debate what the Bible says. I am seeking historical facts only and would appreciate if we could leave it at that.

    According to several commentaries we have read, it has been said, that the reason Paul addressed the issue of head covering is because there was a movement in the Corinthian church for the women to uncover their head as a sign of independence. (I am not wanting to debate this!)

    What I would like to know, is through various cultures, it is the appropriate attire for women to cover their head;

    has this ever been practiced by the Baptist or have the Baptists always adapted to society?

    If this wasn't a Baptist practice, then when did the women of society quit covering their head as a whole?

    I know at some point in time, it was proper for the women to go to church with their Sunday bonnets on, was this do to fashion or belief?
     
    #1 Walls, Aug 29, 2003
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Before we try to get our arms around this one, let us keep in mind the injunction given under inspiration at the end of the covering passage (1st Corinthians 11:3-16):
     
    #2 Squire Robertsson, Aug 29, 2003
  3. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch New Member

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    I know that among Orthodox Jews, a head covering is to be worn by the married women. Kind of funny attending a Jewish gathering. The married women have pretty much the same style hair. My curiosity was answered when I was told that most of the married women had on wigs as their headcovering. If they don't wear the wig, they will wear a hat or a veil. The OJ usually are following a custom or tradition passed down over generations. The custom is the same, the attire is different.
     
    #3 TheOliveBranch, Aug 29, 2003
  4. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter New Member

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    No denomination founded before 1800 disagreed with the practice of women's headcoverings. The practice did not begin dying out until the 20th century. Many groups refuse to give it up, and it is making a resurgence among some people who belong to groups that don't even practice it.

    http://www.expage.com/page/headcovering

    Not only is it a traditional Baptist practice, but the Russian Baptists argue in favor of it on their web site:
    http://rus-baptist.narod.ru/engl/headcovering.htm
     
    #4 Taufgesinnter, Aug 29, 2003
  5. Walls

    Walls New Member

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    That is so-o-o strange! I love this part of the board, I learn so much. Thank you all for your input! [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #5 Walls, Aug 30, 2003
  6. Gayla

    Gayla New Member

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    "For if the woman be not covered, let her ALSO be shorn:" 1 Cor. 11:6 (AKJV)


    posted August 29, 2003 07:16 PM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    No denomination founded before 1800 disagreed with the practice of women's headcoverings. The practice did not begin dying out until the 20th century. Many groups refuse to give it up, and it is making a resurgence among some people who belong to groups that don't even practice it.

    http://www.expage.com/page/headcovering
    [the verse above came from this site . . ]

    I thought it a little funny for my situation.

    I've never worn hats before, but now I'm going through chemotherapy, have very little hair, and am wearing hats all the time! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]


    (edited for spelling)
     
    #6 Gayla, Aug 30, 2003
  7. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    Coming from a church that is just over 120 years old, I have seen pictures of the membership over that period of time. Added to that, I can make the following observations from my own personal experience.

    Before the mid-1960s, it was customary for women in the United States to wear hats whenever they went someplace in other than casual dress. The further you go back from let's say 1965, the more prevalent the hat wearing. Until you get to the day, when a "decently dressed" women (lady or otherwise) didn't go outdoors without a hat. And that was the custom for the previous hundred plus years. I can remember as a boy that women of a certain age didn't go downtown without a hat and white gloves (my own mother was a bit young for that). All of this was the general custom of the time period. We aren't even speaking of anything special for church (unless you were Catholic). Church services were just considered an occasion for wearing your best. Hence, a woman wore a hat. There was no theological reason for it. It was just what a properly dressed person did.

    And then the mid-60s, women in general just stopped wearing hats. Blame it on smaller cars with lower roofs. Blame it on the expense of maintaining a hat collection. Blame on the_____(Beatles or whatever you wish to fill in the blank with). But decently made hats just disappeared from Main Street. You could still find them in specialty stores in the larger cities. But by the time I started Bible College in 1977, the young ladies of my school couldn't find a decent hat for the required wear at Sunday morning services. The older ladies attached to the faculty and staff either as members members or wives at least had their closets to go to.

    Like I wrote above, before the mid-60s ladies were not makeing a 1 Corinthians 11 statement when they wore a hat. It was just a matter of general custom. Since there was no theological meaning, after the mid-60s another sentiment kicked in. As I noted above, Catholic women were required by RC custom and regulation to wear a covering. This usually took the form of a scarf or mantillia. Many Baptists took the position that they did not want to look like a Catholic. So, they couldn't find a decent hat and they most certainly were not going to wear a "Catholic" scarf.

    Which pretty much brings us to today's situation and 1 Corinthians 11:16.
     
    #7 Squire Robertsson, Sep 1, 2003
  8. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter New Member

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    1 Corinthians 11:16 says that neither the apostles nor any of the churches of God did otherwise than for women to wear a veil. To argue differently is to make Paul rather senile, in that he would strenuously argue a position for over a dozen verses from the very account of creation and from nature and then tell his readers to dismiss him.
     
    #8 Taufgesinnter, Sep 1, 2003
  9. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson Administrator
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    I am not argueing that Paul did not consider the principle an important one. Only that he did not want it to become a point of contention.
    A breech of this principle is illustrated by this incident from my own life:
    </font>[/QUOTE]I believe it is this type of thinking Paul seeking to address in v. 16. Many of the EC-B that I know hold to Mama's line of thinking.
     
    #9 Squire Robertsson, Sep 2, 2003
  10. TheOliveBranch

    TheOliveBranch New Member

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    Living in the north for most of my Christian life, I had not had any conflict with the question of headcoverings. Women simply did not use a covering, except that hear hair be the covering. When some of the college students then went on to colleges in the south, headcoverings became an issue.

    I know that when I was growing up in the RCC, we wouldn't think of going into the church without our heads covered. This included us as children.

    The point I am getting to, though, is that I also know women that do cover their heads. They claim to be blessed for doing this. I believe this to be true. But being in the north, to have your head covered is something that is looked down upon, unless you wear tha covering for style. Opposition to the covering is strong, and the argument is that long hair is sufficient. My feelings on this are, I have no fear of what man can do to me, so I would rather try the headcovering, and if this is the Lord's will, conviction will come, as the blessings. I would rather be obedient than follow the traditions of man.
     
    #10 TheOliveBranch, Sep 2, 2003
  11. Walls

    Walls New Member

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    I remember stories from my mother, how when she was a little girl, once a month they would get all dolled up and go downtown to the Block's tea room for brunch.

    Yes, this was a common practice back then. But was it from religious beliefs made fashionable? Thus my original question: Have the Baptist ever had a distinct code of dress or have the always conformed to society and fashion trends?
     
    #11 Walls, Sep 2, 2003
  12. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    Our church is 135 years old,and as far back as any exsisting photos go show no hats on women.
    I don't call not wearing a hat adapting to socitey.
     
    #12 donnA, Sep 3, 2003
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