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HOF: Ron Santo

Discussion in 'Sports Forum' started by TomVols, Aug 7, 2007.

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  1. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    This is for PastorSBC and PastorBob!

    Since the day Santo came into the majors til the day he left, no 3B had more HR (he hit 88 more than Brooks), Runs, Triples, RBI, XBH, and walks (300 more than any other 3B). 2nd in that span in hits, doubles, OBP, OPS, and Total Bases. 3rd best BA in his era. He has some top tens all-time among 3B. 9 time all-star with 5 straight GG.

    Some poo-poo him for his FP just being 6 pts above league avg. His RFG is a half a point better than league avg. And he's no doubt overshadowed by Brooks Robinson, even though Brooks looks up at Santo in most of the statistical totals for the era.

    Bill James has said Santo's the best player not in the HOF. Olbermann has said every year Santo is not in the Hall is one more argument that the HOF voting needs to be reformed.

    I say put him in, and do it before we have to do it posthumously.
     
    #1 TomVols, Aug 7, 2007
  2. PastorSBC1303

    PastorSBC1303 Active Member

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    He clearly deserves to be in the HOF.

    I have some friends that do not think he deserves to be in the HOF because they think he uses his health as a guilt trip on people to try and get in. And a couple others feel like he has been a jerk to some of the voters and that has kept him out. I know that stuff may have not helped him...

    Aside from that, clearly by his numbers he deserves to be in the HOF. He was one of the greatest 3B of all time.
     
    #2 PastorSBC1303, Aug 7, 2007
  3. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    O.k., I agree on this one.
     
    #3 Andy T., Aug 7, 2007
  4. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    However, I will also add that I am not foaming at the mouth over Santo to get in like Olberman and others are. (BTW, Olberman is a secular liberal arrogant blowhard, but that's another matter.)

    His short career hurts him, but he probably deserves to be in the Hall.
     
    #4 Andy T., Aug 7, 2007
  5. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    No doubt about Olbermann's politics. (anyone else surprised he has kept his job at MSNBC this long?) But he got me started on the HOF list years ago. He's actually the one that got me thinking about Davey really seriously. Blame him :laugh:

    But he is knowledgable about baseball. Funny as all get out, but just hard to take now that he regurgitates the left-wing talking points.
     
    #5 TomVols, Aug 8, 2007
  6. EdSutton

    EdSutton New Member

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    I'm not sure 2243 games and 15 seasons is all that short a career.

    That is more games than Joe Torre, Orlando Cepeda, Bill Mazeroski, Don Mattingly, Johnny Bench, Dale Murphy, Keith Hernandez, Ryne Sandberg, Kirby Puckett, or Mark McGwire played. And 3 of ten of these guys are in the Hall Of Fame, and the others have received some mention on these pages. I did not notice any of them referred to as having "a short career". And Santo probably deserves to be in the Hall, as well as some others who will never make it, or who have the award delayed until they will not be around to see it, such as Buck O'Neill, who I think will finally be awarded his just placement there. It is a shame that this could not have happened while he (O'Neill) could have enjoyed it, a bit.

    And another who definitely deserves HoF status is Minnie Minoso, especially given he was another who prohibited from playing in the ML until his mid-twenties just because of the color of his skin!
    And he still played in 15 regular seasons, and then briefly in two more to cover five decades, thanks to the greatest of all the baseball showmen, HOF member Bill Veeck. :laugh:

    Ed
     
    #6 EdSutton, Aug 8, 2007
  7. Andy T.

    Andy T. Active Member

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    You're right - it wasn't that short a career. But he still quit at age 34. Another thing I see with Santo's career is a lot of inconistency. Look at his BA's - they are all over the board. Alan Trammell was criticized by Tom for that very thing, but nary a word about it on Santo. For me, the inconistency thing is not much of an issue, if the guy had some great seasons (both Trammell and Santo did) and/or their career numbers are impressive (both Trammell and Santo are marginal on this point).
     
    #7 Andy T., Aug 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 8, 2007
  8. TomVols

    TomVols New Member

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    To be fair, I said:
    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=41853&page=2
    I was not passing judgement. However, since you brought it up, Santo has more consistency in BA than you think. Tram literally would hit in the 300s one year and 70 points less the next. Santo wasn't as all over the charts and has better numbers in his era. If you want to make an argument to overcome Trammell's era deficiencies, you cannot look to his consistency. You can argue that he had great seasons. But not consistent.
    I agree somewhat....see above.....
    One thing that is not in question is where Santo and Tram rank respectively in their eras.
     
    #8 TomVols, Aug 8, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 13, 2007
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