Holy Fire: The Miracle of Holy Saturday at the Tomb of Christ … by Haris Skarlakidis

[evangelist-7]

Holy Fire: The Miracle of Holy Saturday at the Tomb of Christ … by Haris Skarlakidis

I purchased this book in a monastery at Meteora, Greece … extremely high quality … 264 pages

The new book “Holy Fire” provides 45 personal testimonies plus a multitude of other references
and resources spanning the almost 2000 year history of the Holy Fire miracle that occurs
every year on Orthodox Holy Saturday in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

start of the Introduction

The descent of the Holy Fire at the Church of the Resurrection – or Church of the Holy Sepulchre
as it is also known – each Holy Saturday is a magnificent and highly venerated event that has
been taking place for more than a millennium.

Each year, at noon on Holy Saturday, a light descends on the Tomb of Christ, the Holy Sepulchre,
and ignites the so-called ever-burning oil lamp in the Tomb’s interior, while at the same time a
blue incandescence from the same light diffuses throughout the Church of the Resurrection,
illuminating the entire area and spontaneously igniting other lamps and candles around the church.

This event has been recorded for at least twelve centuries. The historical testimonies referring to it
and presented in this work amount to 45, and they describe in detail the rite of the Holy Fire during
the period between the ninth and sixteenth centuries.

All these testimonies describe, in an impressively unanimous manner, a fire or light that miraculously
descends from the sky before the waiting crowd and lights a lamp inside the empty Tomb of Christ.
This light is identified with the supernatural light that radiated inside the Tomb of Christ during His Resurrection.

The Holy Light appeared for the first time during the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, after midnight on
Holy Saturday and a few hours before the dawn of Easter Sunday, most likely on the date of 5 April AD 33.

Today, two millennia later, the same light continues to appear at the same place:
inside the Tomb of Christ but also outside it, during the service of Holy Saturday.

http://lessonsfromamonastery.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/book-review-holy-fire-by-haris-skarlakidis/

Available in the USA …
http://www.notofthisworldicons.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80001585-1324405830
.

 

[Revmitchell]

Oh brother.

 

[The Biblicist]

Holy Fire: The Miracle of Holy Saturday at the Tomb of Christ … by Haris Skarlakidis

I purchased this book in a monastery at Meteora, Greece … extremely high quality … 264 pages

The new book “Holy Fire” provides 45 personal testimonies plus a multitude of other references
and resources spanning the almost 2000 year history of the Holy Fire miracle that occurs
every year on Orthodox Holy Saturday in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

start of the Introduction

The descent of the Holy Fire at the Church of the Resurrection – or Church of the Holy Sepulchre
as it is also known – each Holy Saturday is a magnificent and highly venerated event that has
been taking place for more than a millennium.

Each year, at noon on Holy Saturday, a light descends on the Tomb of Christ, the Holy Sepulchre,
and ignites the so-called ever-burning oil lamp in the Tomb’s interior, while at the same time a
blue incandescence from the same light diffuses throughout the Church of the Resurrection,
illuminating the entire area and spontaneously igniting other lamps and candles around the church.

This event has been recorded for at least twelve centuries. The historical testimonies referring to it
and presented in this work amount to 45, and they describe in detail the rite of the Holy Fire during
the period between the ninth and sixteenth centuries.

All these testimonies describe, in an impressively unanimous manner, a fire or light that miraculously
descends from the sky before the waiting crowd and lights a lamp inside the empty Tomb of Christ.
This light is identified with the supernatural light that radiated inside the Tomb of Christ during His Resurrection.

The Holy Light appeared for the first time during the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, after midnight on
Holy Saturday and a few hours before the dawn of Easter Sunday, most likely on the date of 5 April AD 33.

Today, two millennia later, the same light continues to appear at the same place:
inside the Tomb of Christ but also outside it, during the service of Holy Saturday.

http://lessonsfromamonastery.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/book-review-holy-fire-by-haris-skarlakidis/

Available in the USA …
http://www.notofthisworldicons.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80001585-1324405830
.

yes, Satan has been alive and well for millenniums and is still empowering the Catholic Charismatic movement as well as the Protestant Pentecostal movement and THE FRUITS prove it:

1. False prophecies
2. Confusion and division
3. False doctrines
4. Immoral lifestyles of its leadership

 

[Yeshua1]

Holy Fire: The Miracle of Holy Saturday at the Tomb of Christ … by Haris Skarlakidis

I purchased this book in a monastery at Meteora, Greece … extremely high quality … 264 pages

The new book “Holy Fire” provides 45 personal testimonies plus a multitude of other references
and resources spanning the almost 2000 year history of the Holy Fire miracle that occurs
every year on Orthodox Holy Saturday in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem.

start of the Introduction

The descent of the Holy Fire at the Church of the Resurrection – or Church of the Holy Sepulchre
as it is also known – each Holy Saturday is a magnificent and highly venerated event that has
been taking place for more than a millennium.

Each year, at noon on Holy Saturday, a light descends on the Tomb of Christ, the Holy Sepulchre,
and ignites the so-called ever-burning oil lamp in the Tomb’s interior, while at the same time a
blue incandescence from the same light diffuses throughout the Church of the Resurrection,
illuminating the entire area and spontaneously igniting other lamps and candles around the church.

This event has been recorded for at least twelve centuries. The historical testimonies referring to it
and presented in this work amount to 45, and they describe in detail the rite of the Holy Fire during
the period between the ninth and sixteenth centuries.

All these testimonies describe, in an impressively unanimous manner, a fire or light that miraculously
descends from the sky before the waiting crowd and lights a lamp inside the empty Tomb of Christ.
This light is identified with the supernatural light that radiated inside the Tomb of Christ during His Resurrection.

The Holy Light appeared for the first time during the Resurrection of Jesus Christ, after midnight on
Holy Saturday and a few hours before the dawn of Easter Sunday, most likely on the date of 5 April AD 33.

Today, two millennia later, the same light continues to appear at the same place:
inside the Tomb of Christ but also outside it, during the service of Holy Saturday.

http://lessonsfromamonastery.wordpress.com/2011/11/16/book-review-holy-fire-by-haris-skarlakidis/

Available in the USA …
http://www.notofthisworldicons.com/ProductDetail.jsp?LISTID=80001585-1324405830
.

Think that is NOT of God , as He wants us to look to Jesus alone, not bogus stuff that comes from Demons!

 

[evangelist-7]

I was hoping to get more replies than this!

But now that the nay-sayers have had time to actually think about it ...

I have always considered the apparitions connected with Mary to be bogus.
Jesus said she was the greatest woman ever born, and that John the Baptist was the greatest man ever born.
So what? They're not to be prayed to and even worshipped!

I was ON a Catholic forum once, and asked why they didn't worship John like they did Mary.
Then, mysteriously, I was OFF the forum. Too embarrassing a question, I guess.

Meanwhilst ...

This Orthodox thing explained in great detail in the book ... this is all about JESUS ...
glorifying JESUS ... drawing attention to JESUS ... at the Tomb of Christ, the Holy Sepulchre.

Which is what you've probably figured out by now!
But, then again, maybe not.

Maybe you still have God in box somewhere ...
where He's not EVER allowed to come out and display His awesome power!
Oh well, maybe They're not lonely in there ... after all, there's Three of them in there together.

Since the Holy Spirit is the Work-horse of the Holy Trinity,
IMO those who say He's not doin' what He's actually doin'
are committing the modern-day version of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Gee, I love bringin' this up again!
.

 

[Scarlett O.]

Jesus said she [Mary] was the greatest woman ever born .....

Really. I'd like to read that for myself. Could you give me the chapter and verse of that direct quote, please? You know, I'll even take the chapter and verse of that IMPLIED statement by Jesus.

I was ON a Catholic forum once, and asked why they didn't worship John like they did Mary. Then, mysteriously, I was OFF the forum. Too embarrassing a question, I guess.

I've not been on a Catholic forum, but I wouldn't be surprised if that were not the only contributing factor to your "mysterious" demotion. You see, I've seen you on another forum. One I moderate. You seem to enjoy this pot-stirring. You seem to take glee in your belief that you are schooling people.

You said that you were hoping to get more replies than this.

Why? Whenever I see your name on a new thread, I know exactly what the content will be and your purpose in posting. It isn't for edication of the body, fellowship, intellectual and honest debate, growing, or learning.

You enjoy stirring the ant bed and watching the ants scurry about.

Maybe you still have God in box somewhere ...
where He's not EVER allowed to come out and display His awesome power!

I believe that all Christians put God in that metaphorical box.

You included. You and others here seem to think that supernatural signs and wonders are the ONLY way that God can work. Or at least that's the impression we are being given.

Since the Holy Spirit is the Work-horse of the Holy Trinity,
IMO those who say He's not doin' what He's actually doin'
are committing the modern-day version of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Ah. We disagree with you, so that makes us blapsphemers of the Holy Spirit.

That's a tall accusation brother. Can you back it up, o-accuser-of-the-brethren? Or do you not even consider us brethren at all?

If I believe sometimes that the devil is deceiving people by trying to imitate signs and wonders that makes me a blasphemer? We are not allowed to "test" the spirits, as the Bible directs?

Gee, I love bringin' this up again!

You see, that's just it, brother. You love stirring the pot. You love getting a rise out of people You just don't love - or at least I see no evidence - the people whom you are seeking to bring discord to.

You wanted replies. I've given you mine..

 

[evangelist-7]

Could you give me the chapter and verse of that direct quote, please?

SO, Many greetings and salutations!

God's angel and God's anointed both claimed that Mary was the most blessed of all women born.
Luke 1:
27 to a virgin betrothed to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David. The virgin’s name was Mary.
28 And having come in, the angel said to her,
“Rejoice, highly favored one, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”
41 And it happened, when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, that the babe leaped in her womb;
and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.
42 Then she spoke out with a loud voice and said,
“Blessed are you among women, and blessed is the fruit of your womb!

Now, wouldst thou care to explain why Satan would help millions of souls be saved today
by confirming (with signs and wonders) the gospel preached by many evangelists?
There's a lot of hard work involved here ... must be some reason.

P.S. I can think of a reason why Satan wouldn't be a-doin' this!
.

 

[Scarlett O.]

God's angel and God's anointed both claimed that Mary was the most blessed of all women born.

"Most blessed of all women born" is not what the Gabriel nor Elizabeth said. They said "blessed are you among women." Not "most blessed of all". And not the "greatest woman who has ever lived." I don't see a superlative there.

To me, the thrust of what the angel said was not God blessing her, but WHY He did. She found favor with God. That's what needs investigating and promoting. Finding favor with God.

Now, wouldst thou care to explain why Stan woudl help millions of souls be saved today by confirming (with signs and wonders) the gospel preached by so many evangelists? There's a lot of hard work involved here .... must be some reason.

P.S. I can think of a reason why Satan wouldn't be a-doin this!

First let me say this. I do not discount signs and wonders. I just know that their purpose in the Bible on mass scale is no more. There purpose was to give credibility to Jesus while He walked this earth as a man and to give credibility to his apostles. The Bible says that we are to look to the Word for salvation via the Holy Spirit.

Does God still save people using signs and wonder? I'm sure He does.

Secondly, Satan is not is the saving business. He is in the 3-D business. Destruction, deception, and devouring business. And he is very crafty.

You are right. That is a lot of hard work. Satan never takes a nap or holiday. He's on the job 24/7.

Why would he promote actual signs and wonders? I can only tell you what the Bible says.

• Matthew 24 says that false prophets WILL rise with signs and wonders with the purpose of deceiving people, even if it were possible, the elect.
• Matthew 12 - Jesus says that those who INSIST on signs and wonders accompanying a belief are an "evil and adulterous" generation.
• 1 Timothy 4 says that some spirits are very "seducing" and that the devils have their own "doctrine".
• Deuteronomy 13 - God warn that there would be people who could actually perform legitimate signs and wonders in order to deceive people into following a false god and could even lead people away from God.
• In taking the next three verse in concert, John 16:13-15, 1 Corinthians 3:10-11, and 1 John 4:2-3, we see that the Holy Spirit will glorify God and Christ only and that a true prophet does the same thing via the Holy Spirit and that there are some false prophets and evil spirits who testify that Jesus is NOT God.
• 1 John 4:1-6 says to TEST THE SPIRITS.
• 1 Thessalonians 5 says to TEST ALL THNGS.

There are all sorts of false prophets out there today - claiming signs and wonders - who:

• glorify themselves.
• preach a false gospel and use the signs and wonders to lure people to the false gospel
• preach that Jesus is not God
• deceive people into believing that they are saved and that the proof is that they are successful financially and health wise

Yes, the devil does work very hard at luring people into believe a humanistic, mystic, and destructive "gospel". And it sounds so wonderful to the ear that only wishes to be tickled.

How many people out there who believe themselves to be saved and are lost because the devil has used imitations of God and imitations of God's signs and wonders to lead people into a imitation salvation by an imitation Christ via an imitation Holy Spirit!

I can't help but resent it when people come on board here and start spouting off this book and that book and this video and that video claiming unverified signs and wonders and claim that those of us who wish to test the spirits and test all things are blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

I don't discount God's still using an occasional sign and/or wonder. God is marvelous beyond explanation.

I'm just going to look them and take a good look at who is reporting them and what claims they are making because of them.

I'm only doing what the Bible says to do concerning signs and wonders.

Lastly, signs and wonders are not the foremost way to salvation. The Holy Spirit performing the GREATEST wonder of changing the heart via the Word of God is the foremost way to salvation.

Romans 10:17. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God."

 

[Yeshua1]

I was hoping to get more replies than this!

But now that the nay-sayers have had time to actually think about it ...

I have always considered the apparitions connected with Mary to be bogus.
Jesus said she was the greatest woman ever born, and that John the Baptist was the greatest man ever born.
So what? They're not to be prayed to and even worshipped!

I was ON a Catholic forum once, and asked why they didn't worship John like they did Mary.
Then, mysteriously, I was OFF the forum. Too embarrassing a question, I guess.

Meanwhilst ...

This Orthodox thing explained in great detail in the book ... this is all about JESUS ...
glorifying JESUS ... drawing attention to JESUS ... at the Tomb of Christ, the Holy Sepulchre.

Which is what you've probably figured out by now!
But, then again, maybe not.

Maybe you still have God in box somewhere ...
where He's not EVER allowed to come out and display His awesome power!
Oh well, maybe They're not lonely in there ... after all, there's Three of them in there together.

Since the Holy Spirit is the Work-horse of the Holy Trinity,
IMO those who say He's not doin' what He's actually doin'
are committing the modern-day version of Gee, I love bringin' this up again!
.

So you regard the "mary" of fatima as being legit and of God to us?

And you are claiming that those of us here who deny the Chasmatic version of "baptism in the Holy Ghost: as being not valid per the scriptures, and who deny the modern word of faith movement as being heretical are blaspheming the Holy Spirit?

 

[evangelist-7]

In NT times, the gospel was preached without the written word and was confirmed by God's signs.

Today, in foreign lands, in large meetings,
the gospel is preached without the written word, and is confirmed by God's signs.
Multitudes have come to Jesus by this method.

Deceived cessationist Christians seem to give credit to Satan for today's NT-style meetings.
But, they need to be asking themselves ...
what would Satan have to gain by faking God's signs when these have ALWAYS greatly helped multitudes come to Jesus?

Are they capable of thinking at all, or only capable of blindly following their churches' false doctrine?
.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

I was hoping to get more replies than this!

But now that the nay-sayers have had time to actually think about it ...

I have always considered the apparitions connected with Mary to be bogus.
Jesus said she was the greatest woman ever born, and that John the Baptist was the greatest man ever born.
So what? They're not to be prayed to and even worshipped!

I was ON a Catholic forum once, and asked why they didn't worship John like they did Mary.
Then, mysteriously, I was OFF the forum. Too embarrassing a question, I guess.

Meanwhilst ...

This Orthodox thing explained in great detail in the book ... this is all about JESUS ...
glorifying JESUS ... drawing attention to JESUS ... at the Tomb of Christ, the Holy Sepulchre.

Which is what you've probably figured out by now!
But, then again, maybe not.

Maybe you still have God in box somewhere ...
where He's not EVER allowed to come out and display His awesome power!
Oh well, maybe They're not lonely in there ... after all, there's Three of them in there together.

Since the Holy Spirit is the Work-horse of the Holy Trinity,
IMO those who say He's not doin' what He's actually doin'
are committing the modern-day version of blaspheming the Holy Spirit.

Gee, I love bringin' this up again!
.

I'll answer you question. I know people here won't agree with me and I accept that. But let me at least put it into the actual Catholic Perspective.

First of all Catholics don't worship Mary in the sense that you imply which is worship only relegated to the Divine. So your question presupposes something that Catholics consider false. The problem is what is defined as worship. To many worship equates to prayer and praise and "bowing" down. Catholics and Orthdox don't see it this way. There is a veneration given to God alone and then there is honoring people. For the Catholic and The Orthodox death doesn't end a person's time in the Church but is a translating of a person from this earthly life to the heavenly one. The Church according to Catholics and Orthodox exist in both places at the same time. Thus in the Creed "Communion of Saints" include all Christians both temporal (living) and those translated (died though we know people in Christ don't die). Thus Catholics see Mary as the first Christian because She was the first person who believed who Jesus was and his mission. Prayer is a vehicle of communication not "worship reserved for the divine". So with this in mind Catholics Give Mary honors. They don't hold her as divine. This is just an explanation why Catholics have that perspective.

 

[evangelist-7]

The Bible says that we are to look to the Word for salvation via the Holy Spirit.
I’m drawing a blank on this one … please provide your verses!
I see many verses asking people to just BELIEVE in Jesus and His the gospel ... by any means!
The Bible surely does NOT say to ignore signs which accompany the gospel.

Your Matthew 24 is talking about the future Great Tribulation period … talk about grasping at straws!

How many people out there who believe themselves to be saved and are lost because the devil has used
imitations of God and imitations of God's signs and wonders to lead people into an imitation salvation
by an imitation Christ via an imitation Holy Spirit!
And why doesn't this cautious pessimism apply to when the apostles were evangelizing?
Gee, I thought the devil was around then too!

I'm just going to look them and take a good look at who is reporting them and what claims they are making because of them.
Okay, I’ll take a good look at myself!
I have preached the gospel in Jesus' name to heathens ... given them gospel tracts, NTs, Bibles, etc. to read later,
and prayed for the sick, lame, etc. to be healed in Jesus' name … and they were healed instantly.
And the Holy Spirit has done all of this ... for He is the Workhorse Manifestation of the Triune Godhead.
If you choose to give the glory to Satan for this, I say you are committing
the modern-day version of blasphemy of the Holy Spirit (or very close to it).

Praise the Lord for saving millions and healing millions today ... in spite of the unbelief of the cessationists!
.

 

[evangelist-7]

I'll answer your question. I know people here won't agree with me and I accept that.
But let me at least put it into the actual Catholic Perspective.

First of all Catholics don't worship Mary in the sense that you imply which is worship only relegated to the Divine.
So your question presupposes something that Catholics consider false. The problem is what is defined as worship.
To many worship equates to prayer and praise and "bowing" down. Catholics and Orthdox don't see it this way.
There is a veneration given to God alone and then there is honoring people. For the Catholic and The Orthodox death doesn't end a person's time in the Church but is a translating of a person from this earthly life to the heavenly one. The Church according to Catholics and Orthodox exist in both places at the same time. Thus in the Creed "Communion of Saints" include all Christians both temporal (living) and those translated (died though we know people in Christ don't die). Thus Catholics see Mary as the first Christian because She was the first person who believed who Jesus was and his mission. Prayer is a vehicle of communication not "worship reserved for the divine". So with this in mind Catholics Give Mary honors. They don't hold her as divine. This is just an explanation why Catholics have that perspective.

Many thanks for your eloquent explanation.

To me, this ties in with the verse which talks about "the great cloud of witnesses".

IMO, the biggest criticism of Protestants is directed at those who PRAY to Mary and the Saints to intercede for us.
To Protestants is totally unscriptural ... but, I know that only certain groups do this.
Catholicism is like a giant octopus ... with many different doctrines spread out everywhere.

The Word says that ONLY Jesus acts as our Intercessor ... our Mediator between us and Father God.
.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Many thanks for your eloquent explanation.

To me, this ties in with the verse which talks about "the great cloud of witnesses".

IMO, the biggest criticism of Protestants is directed at those who PRAY to Mary and the Saints to intercede for us.
To Protestants is totally unscriptural ... but, I know that only certain groups do this.
Catholicism is like a giant octopus ... with many different doctrines spread out everywhere.

The Word says that ONLY Jesus acts as our Intercessor ... our Mediator between us and Father God.
.

I understand the protestant sentiment and some of it honestly is diserved because there are Catholics who do fall into error. However, Pentecostals hold to "prayer warriors" "intessesors" and People who "mediate" for each other. None of this replaces Christ function as the sole mediator but nonthess there is a role for it. It is in this way the communion of saints are looked at.

 

[Yeshua1]

I'll answer you question. I know people here won't agree with me and I accept that. But let me at least put it into the actual Catholic Perspective.

First of all Catholics don't worship Mary in the sense that you imply which is worship only relegated to the Divine. So your question presupposes something that Catholics consider false. The problem is what is defined as worship. To many worship equates to prayer and praise and "bowing" down. Catholics and Orthdox don't see it this way. There is a veneration given to God alone and then there is honoring people. For the Catholic and The Orthodox death doesn't end a person's time in the Church but is a translating of a person from this earthly life to the heavenly one. The Church according to Catholics and Orthodox exist in both places at the same time. Thus in the Creed "Communion of Saints" include all Christians both temporal (living) and those translated (died though we know people in Christ don't die). Thus Catholics see Mary as the first Christian because She was the first person who believed who Jesus was and his mission. Prayer is a vehicle of communication not "worship reserved for the divine". So with this in mind Catholics Give Mary honors. They don't hold her as divine. This is just an explanation why Catholics have that perspective.

official catholic dogma has her place as a co matrix, Holy mother of God, co intercessor, one who intervenes on your behalf at death, who you pray towho helps in sins remitted etc

can call it what you want , but the RCC venerates/worships mary and sees her as a part of the salvation process WAY beyond the bible!

 

[Yeshua1]

Praise the Lord for saving millions and healing millions today ... in spite of the unbelief of the cessationists![/B]
.

and you praise something that cannot be proved from either factual evidences or biblical proofs than?

 

[Thinkingstuff]

official catholic dogma has her place as a co matrix,

You are incorrect.

Holy mother of God

this is true but it means that Jesus was d1vine. It doesn't mean Mary is greater than his divinity.

co intercessor,

this is also incorrect.

one who intervenes on your behalf at death

anyone who prays for another at their time of death interviens on their behalf at death. This would be no different than the saints.

who you pray towho helps in sins remitted etc

This again is false

can call it what you want , but the RCC venerates/worships mary and sees her as a part of the salvation process WAY beyond the bible

and again you are wrong. Your premise is incorrect.

Now I will give you the 4 Marian Dogmas. What you've mentioned wasn't dogmatic but these are:

1) Theotokos - Mother of God which is an expression for the nature of Jesus Christ and doesn't relate to Marian divinity as Mary is not divine but a created being, Jesus however is divine and if you knew history you would know this is the Roman Catholic position as defined at the Council at Ephesus in 451 AD correcting the Nestorian Heresy suggesting that Jesus was a weird amalgamation of humanity possessed by divinity. Also Correcting the remenants of Arian Heresy suggesting Jesus was a created being.

2) Perpetual Virginity - That Joseph never had sexual relations with her because of her role as ark of the New Covenant and his deep respect for God and his wife. As to Brothers and sisters mentioned in the NT catholics note that in Aramaic the designation for Brothers and Sisters are the same for cousins. Also one could also hold that Joseph was a widower and had children from his first Marriage. I'm not asking that you believe this but it is a dogmatic position for Catholics whereas co-matrix whatever that is isn't.

3) Immaculate Conseption - That Mary was brought forth without original sin in accordance with the view that Mary was the ark of the second covenant and was pure vesel to hold the presence of Christ in his embryonic development at the begining stages of his incarnation. It does not mean that Mary did not need a savior, she needed God's salvation as much as anyone but he prepared her specially to carry out a specific purpose to which she assented when she said "behold I am the handmaiden of the Lord let it be done to me according to your word" Which should be the example and motto of all Christians as Jesus Christ reflected this same attitude and willingness to obey the father's will when he said "nevertheless your will be done."

4) The Assumption - Where God raises Mary up to heaven. Catholics can believe in the dormition ie Mary died of old age and was raised with the ressurrection of the body by Christ power as an early occurance of what all christians hope for. Or Catholics can believe that Mary was assumed before death by God much like Enoch and Elijah were.

These are the only doctrinally established views of Mary in the Catholic Church.

 

[evangelist-7]

I understand the protestant sentiment and some of it honestly is diserved because there are Catholics who do fall into error. However, Pentecostals hold to "prayer warriors" "intessesors" and People who "mediate" for each other. None of this replaces Christ function as the sole mediator but nonthess there is a role for it. It is in this way the communion of saints are looked at.

Pentecostal "prayer warriors" simply do a whole lot of praying about all kinds of things!
Pentecostal "intercessors" simply do a whole lot of praying for others (on their behalf).
BTW, these things are quite Scriptural indeed.

Never heard of anyone "mediating" for another, except Jesus who is the Mediator.
If they say "mediating", I'd say they mean "interceding".

There are "holy angels" who I suspect are sinless.
But I don't understand how Mary can be considered "holy" unless the immaculate conception is true,
which I do NOT believe was the case ... she inherited man's sin nature like everyone else except One, Jesus.

anyone who prays for another at their time of death interviens on their behalf at death.
This would be no different than the saints.
Hebrews says we live once, and then the judgment, i.e. IMO after we die, nothing about our lives can be improved upon.
.

 

[Thinkingstuff]

Pentecostal "prayer warriors" simply do a whole lot of praying about all kinds of things!
.

As do Catholic Saints. In fact that is their primary function until the final Judgement.

Pentecostal "intercessors" simply do a whole lot of praying for others (on their behalf).

As do the Catholic Saints. Which is why prayers to saints usually end with "pray for us".

BTW, these things are quite Scriptural indeed.

Yes.

Never heard of anyone "mediating" for another, except Jesus who is the Mediator.

Well, what is the definition of Mediator? Only one person can put us in a right relationship with God and that is Jesus Christ. But that isn't the only purpose of mediation. These also are for mediation 1) A person who tries to make peace 2) a person who deals tactfully with another 3) someone who negotiates for another. A Christian Apologist can be consider a mediator with this definition of mediation

one that mediates between parties at variance

. The specific role of mediation of making one right with God is held only by one that is Jesus Christs. But Christians are called on to take on these other roles.

There are "holy angels" who I suspect are sinless.
But I don't understand how Mary can be considered "holy" unless the immaculate conception is true,

Is it a question to whether God could do that for her? Or do you just find it unlikely?

which I do not believe was the case ... she inherited man's sin nature like evreyone else, except Jesus

That is your belief and the belief of people on this board and I don't have a problem with you believing that. However, I believe differently and I believe the Old Testament foreshadows every aspect of Jesus' life to include who gave birth to him. My premise of thought comes from God's soverienty in that Mary was chosen and created for this very task. The assumption by most here is that anyone (and I dare say one person even said even a prostitute) equally could have been considered. But that is our differences.

 

[Yeshua1]

You are incorrect. this is true but it means that Jesus was d1vine. It doesn't mean Mary is greater than his divinity. this is also incorrect. anyone who prays for another at their time of death interviens on their behalf at death. This would be no different than the saints.This again is false

and again you are wrong. Your premise is incorrect.

Now I will give you the 4 Marian Dogmas. What you've mentioned wasn't dogmatic but these are:

1) Theotokos - Mother of God which is an expression for the nature of Jesus Christ and doesn't relate to Marian divinity as Mary is not divine but a created being, Jesus however is divine and if you knew history you would know this is the Roman Catholic position as defined at the Council at Ephesus in 451 AD correcting the Nestorian Heresy suggesting that Jesus was a weird amalgamation of humanity possessed by divinity. Also Correcting the remenants of Arian Heresy suggesting Jesus was a created being.

2) Perpetual Virginity - That Joseph never had sexual relations with her because of her role as ark of the New Covenant and his deep respect for God and his wife. As to Brothers and sisters mentioned in the NT catholics note that in Aramaic the designation for Brothers and Sisters are the same for cousins. Also one could also hold that Joseph was a widower and had children from his first Marriage. I'm not asking that you believe this but it is a dogmatic position for Catholics whereas co-matrix whatever that is isn't.

3) Immaculate Conseption - That Mary was brought forth without original sin in accordance with the view that Mary was the ark of the second covenant and was pure vesel to hold the presence of Christ in his embryonic development at the begining stages of his incarnation. It does not mean that Mary did not need a savior, she needed God's salvation as much as anyone but he prepared her specially to carry out a specific purpose to which she assented when she said "behold I am the handmaiden of the Lord let it be done to me according to your word" Which should be the example and motto of all Christians as Jesus Christ reflected this same attitude and willingness to obey the father's will when he said "nevertheless your will be done."

4) The Assumption - Where God raises Mary up to heaven. Catholics can believe in the dormition ie Mary died of old age and was raised with the ressurrection of the body by Christ power as an early occurance of what all christians hope for. Or Catholics can believe that Mary was assumed before death by God much like Enoch and Elijah were.

These are the only doctrinally established views of Mary in the Catholic Church.

You forgot to add the following views on mary, accepted by popes/cardinals/laity alike within the RCC!

Mary is Mother of all Christians
Co-Redemptrix
Mediatrix
[Queen of Heaven
Reparations to the Virgin Mary

So that makes it look like your prior answer was 'protestant correct!"