Hope in Romans 5:1-11

[robt.k.fall]

Hope in Romans 5:1-11
By David Huffstutler

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Hope in Romans 5:1-11
By David Huffstutler

I like this but let me also be a tad bit critical about the suffering part. To me anyway Paul did not define suffering as sufficient as he could have. There is a difference between manageable suffering and crushing suffering. The latter produces loss… of mental capabilities, destruction of the family, criminality to cope with feeding , health issues etc. It leads to both spiritual & physical death.

 

[Mikoo]

I like this but let me also be a tad bit critical about the suffering part. 1.To me anyway Paul did not define suffering as sufficient as he could have. 2.There is a difference between manageable suffering and crushing suffering. The latter produces loss… of mental capabilities, destruction of the family, criminality to cope with feeding , health issues etc. It leads to both spiritual & physical death.

1 - I'm a little confused here by what you wrote. I usually agree with you on most things. Are you saying God failed to have Paul sufficiently define suffering in His Word?

2 - Do you not believe early Christians in Paul's time did not suffer, what you call, 'crushing Suffering'?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding or something.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

1 - I'm a little confused here by what you wrote. I usually agree with you on most things. Are you saying God failed to have Paul sufficiently define suffering in His Word?

2 - Do you not believe early Christians in Paul's time did not suffer, what you call, 'crushing Suffering'?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding or something.

I make it a practice of distinguishing between eternal and temporal salvation. One can carry the cross in their life providing they can handle the weight. But what if that weight crushes you like your child cannot walk, talk, feed itself, slowly dying a very painful and extended death. That’s crushing. Do you just dismiss it as character building? Then your spouse dies of that stress at a young age leaving you to carry that weight alone! I saw that 1st hand happen to my mother. That burden lasted from her 20’s to her death at 70 yo. Though it was temporary/temporal it caused immense pain & suffering and an early quick death would have been a blessing but it wasn’t to be. Instead she contracted pancreatic cancer which tapped her strength and prevented her from having peace in her final moments. What’s Paul say about that… was that character building?

 

[Mikoo]

I make it a practice of distinguishing between eternal and temporal salvation. One can carry the cross in their life providing they can handle the weight. But what if that weight crushes you like your child cannot walk, talk, feed itself, slowly dying a very painful and extended death. That’s crushing. Do you just dismiss it as character building? Then your spouse dies of that stress at a young age leaving you to carry that weight alone! I saw that 1st hand happen to my mother. That burden lasted from her 20’s to her death at 70 yo. Though it was temporary/temporal it caused immense pain & suffering and an early quick death would have been a blessing but it wasn’t to be. Instead she contracted pancreatic cancer which tapped her strength and prevented her from having peace in her final moments. What’s Paul say about that… was that character building?

Are we, as believers, exempt from the sufferings in this world? Is that what God's Word says? Has anyone suffered more more than Christ did on our behalf? Only you mention 'character building'.

But you still did not answer my questions to what you wrote. Here they are again in case you want to answer this time.

1 - I'm a little confused here by what you wrote. I usually agree with you on most things. Are you saying God failed to have Paul sufficiently define suffering in His Word?

2 - Do you not believe early Christians in Paul's time did not suffer, what you call, 'crushing Suffering'?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Are we, as believers, exempt from the sufferings in this world? Is that what God's Word says? Has anyone suffered more more than Christ did on our behalf? Only you mention 'character building'.

But you still did not answer my questions to what you wrote. Here they are again in case you want to answer this time.

1 - I'm a little confused here by what you wrote. I usually agree with you on most things. Are you saying God failed to have Paul sufficiently define suffering in His Word? YES absolutely. But we are all operating off a Bible translation. Perhaps he did in the unedited version.

2 - Do you not believe early Christians in Paul's time did not suffer, what you call, 'crushing Suffering'?

If they did, Paul seems NOT TO explain it properly.

 

[Mikoo]

2 - Do you not believe early Christians in Paul's time did not suffer, what you call, 'crushing Suffering'?

If they did, Paul seems NOT TO explain it properly.

So, you answered the second question I asked. Which to me means that the answer to my first question (listed below) would be 'Yes". You believe God failed to explain suffering 'properly'. So you decided to correct God's Word on suffering?
Or...could it be that you don't understand God's Word on suffering? Maybe go back and actually read my response to your last post when you didn't answer my questions. Maybe that will start you on your way to understanding God's Word on suffering.

1 - I'm a little confused here by what you wrote. I usually agree with you on most things. Are you saying God failed to have Paul sufficiently define suffering in His Word?

2 - Do you not believe early Christians in Paul's time did not suffer, what you call, 'crushing Suffering'?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

So, you answered the second question I asked. Which to me means that the answer to my first question (listed below) would be 'Yes". You believe God failed to explain suffering 'properly'. So you decided to correct God's Word on suffering?
Or...could it be that you don't understand God's Word on suffering? Maybe go back and actually read my response to your last post when you didn't answer my questions. Maybe that will start you on your way to understanding God's Word on suffering.

1 - I'm a little confused here by what you wrote. I usually agree with you on most things. Are you saying God failed to have Paul sufficiently define suffering in His Word?

2 - Do you not believe early Christians in Paul's time did not suffer, what you call, 'crushing Suffering'?

Don’t tell me what to do. Paul did not explain himself fully. That is how I see it and if you don’t like, that isn’t my problem… so help me God, this is called critical thinking not criticism of the word of God. Perhaps in the First writing it was indeed addressed properly… who knows. Either way, I’m suggesting Paul did not adequately address the issue.

 

[Mikoo]

Don’t tell me what to do.
Never told you what to do. Just made a suggestion based on your lack of understanding what God's Word says about suffering. You believe God failed to explain suffering 'properly'. You tried to 'better' explain what God told Paul to write in His Word about suffering. 'Crushing' suffering I believe.
Paul did not explain himself fully.
Again. You believe God failed to explain suffering 'properly'. So you decided to correct God's Word on suffering? 'Crushing' suffering, was it?
That is how I see it and if you don’t like, that isn’t my problem
But it is your problem. You made the accusation against Paul (who God used to explain suffering in His Word)You believe God failed to explain suffering 'properly'. So you decided to correct God's Word on suffering? You tried to 'better' explain what God told Paul to write in His Word about suffering. 'Crushing' suffering I believe.

… so help me God, this is called critical thinking not criticism of the word of God.
Nope. You criticized Paul (God's Word). Remember. You tried to 'better' explain what God told Paul to write in His Word about suffering. 'Crushing' suffering I believe.
Perhaps in the First writing it was indeed addressed properly… who knows. Either way, I’m suggesting Paul did not adequately address the issue.
So I was right. You tried to 'better' explain what God told Paul to write in His Word about suffering. 'Crushing' suffering I believe.

Hmmm. Avoidance and defensive. Not telling you what to do. But what I wrote is absolutely correct. But I offer the SUGGESTION again...
Seems that you don't understand God's Word on suffering? Maybe go back and actually read my response to your last post when you didn't answer my questions. Maybe that will start you on your way to understanding God's Word on suffering.

 

[Silverhair]

I make it a practice of distinguishing between eternal and temporal salvation. One can carry the cross in their life providing they can handle the weight. But what if that weight crushes you like your child cannot walk, talk, feed itself, slowly dying a very painful and extended death. That’s crushing. Do you just dismiss it as character building? Then your spouse dies of that stress at a young age leaving you to carry that weight alone! I saw that 1st hand happen to my mother. That burden lasted from her 20’s to her death at 70 yo. Though it was temporary/temporal it caused immense pain & suffering and an early quick death would have been a blessing but it wasn’t to be. Instead she contracted pancreatic cancer which tapped her strength and prevented her from having peace in her final moments. What’s Paul say about that… was that character building?

I am not trying to make lite of the suffering that your mother endured. But I would have to say YES that was character building. A lesser person would have crumbled under the load she bore. I would have to say she exhibited a strong character.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I am not trying to make lite of the suffering that your mother endured. But I would have to say YES that was character building. A lesser person would have crumbled under the load she bore. I would have to say she exhibited a strong character.

Yes and Dale, it almost destroyed her… it certainly broke her heart.