xdisciplex
New Member
Is this serious and biblical?
I just got this email:
I just got this email:
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Household salvation?
- Thread starter xdisciplex
- Start date
xdisciplex
New Member
El_Guero said:Ask your Baptist Pastor . . .
El, I do not have a baptist pastor, okay?
Inquiring Mind
New Member
hmmmmmmmmmmmm14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
15 And when she was baptized, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us.
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tragic_pizza
New Member
I don't know that one can seriously assert that "it is impossible for your family members not to be saved." On the one hand, there is solid Biblical evidence of covenant baptism (or paedobaptism) in passages such as this, but on the other hand the email's assertion smacks of a complete suspension of free will, which is impossible.xdisciplex said:Is this serious and biblical?
I just got this email:
xdisciplex
New Member
Yes, I think so, too.
This sounds like a magic "1,2,3 get your family saved" formula and I don't like formulas.
This sounds like a magic "1,2,3 get your family saved" formula and I don't like formulas.
tragic_pizza
New Member
Precisely. The idea of covenant baptism is that the child/infant is brought into the family of faith, however, it is the responsibility of the family (and, eventually, the growing child) to live in that faith. That's where free will, perseverance, and all that stuff come in.xdisciplex said:Yes, I think so, too.
This sounds like a magic "1,2,3 get your family saved" formula and I don't like formulas.
I can't save you, nor can a mama save her young'uns.
Inquiring Mind
New Member
This is coming around to the issue of child baptism under the age of reasoning or accountability.
The argument is that a child under the age cannot know believe so baptism does not save the child.
The child is born with original sin. The the stain of original sin does not get washed away via baptism and prematurely dies, where does the child go? Hell or Heaven.
The extra-biblical idea of "Relying on God to do the right thing" is a pipe dream and wishful thinking.
A little common sense has to come into play:
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
If an Infant can not possibly believe because it does not have the capacity or ability to believe, then the infant falls into the category of those that believeth not, so the infant shall be damned by the reasoning of those that refute infant baptism.
But I can say that the infant cannot possibly not believe because it does not have the capacity or ability to not believe.
So we have a problem, the infant can neither believe or disbelieve and the child has the taint of original sin.
To elimate this dilemna proposed by original sin, we can exercise some common sense and say that the belief requirement excludes those that don't have the capacity or ability to believe or not believe. But the baptism part is still there. So the infant can be baptized to remove the stain of original sin.
Who fall into this criteria: Infants, all children under the age of reason/accountability, mentally retarded, the mentally damaged from things such as strokes, etc.
For those that refute infant/child/mentally retarded baptism I would ask this question.
You have, let's say, a 5 year old child and has never been baptized. The child dies for whatever reason. What biblical assurance do you have that your child will go to heaven and not hell?
The argument is that a child under the age cannot know believe so baptism does not save the child.
The child is born with original sin. The the stain of original sin does not get washed away via baptism and prematurely dies, where does the child go? Hell or Heaven.
The extra-biblical idea of "Relying on God to do the right thing" is a pipe dream and wishful thinking.
A little common sense has to come into play:
Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
If an Infant can not possibly believe because it does not have the capacity or ability to believe, then the infant falls into the category of those that believeth not, so the infant shall be damned by the reasoning of those that refute infant baptism.
But I can say that the infant cannot possibly not believe because it does not have the capacity or ability to not believe.
So we have a problem, the infant can neither believe or disbelieve and the child has the taint of original sin.
To elimate this dilemna proposed by original sin, we can exercise some common sense and say that the belief requirement excludes those that don't have the capacity or ability to believe or not believe. But the baptism part is still there. So the infant can be baptized to remove the stain of original sin.
Who fall into this criteria: Infants, all children under the age of reason/accountability, mentally retarded, the mentally damaged from things such as strokes, etc.
For those that refute infant/child/mentally retarded baptism I would ask this question.
You have, let's say, a 5 year old child and has never been baptized. The child dies for whatever reason. What biblical assurance do you have that your child will go to heaven and not hell?