How are Those God Saves Glorified?

[Van]

In a recent thread, apparently some denied that God has glorified each and every sinner that He saves. However, Romans 8:30 clearly teaches every saved person has been, past tense, glorified.

Certainly no sinner has any self generated claim to glory, we are wretched sinners. But, somehow, when God alone, by His will alone, chooses to transfer a lost wretched sinner spiritually into Christ, we are then "glorified." Certainly we can say that may mean we have been "clothed" in glory in that we are then "in Christ." But is that the idea? I think not.

In 1 Thessalonians 2:12, scripture teaches that when we are called into His kingdom we are also transferred into His glory. In John 17:23 we see that His Disciples were "perfected" in unity, or being at one with God. Thus, when each person is transferred spiritually into Christ, such that they are in Christ, and when indwelt, Christ (and God the Father) are in them, they being made perfect might also refer to they being glorified.

What do you think?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

In a recent thread, apparently some denied that God has glorified each and every sinner that He saves. However, Romans 8:30 clearly teaches every saved person has been, past tense, glorified.

I think we need to be very careful here. Ephesians 2:6 tells us that we have been raised up and have been made to sit together in the heavenly places. Yet we are still on earth, struggling against sin and heirs to all the weaknesses of the flesh. Because of our union with Christ, what He has done, we are treated as having done. Has Christ died to sin? So have we, in Him, even though we still struggle with it. Has He risen to new life? So have we, In Him. Has Christ ascended into heaven? So have we, in Him, even though we are still on earth. This is the 'already, but not yet' part of the story. So certain is our arrival in heaven that the apostle puts it into the past tense. But where is our glorified body (Phil. 3:21). It's coming, but not yet.
There is also another reason why we need to be very careful here. 'Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived!' (1 Cor. 6:9). This is why I really hate "Once saved, always saved." There is obviously a glorious truth to it, but I think it has misled many people into thinking that they can live sinful lives, and God doesn't mind. 'Do not be deceived!' 'If we say that we have fellowship with Him and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth....... He who says, "I know Him," and does not keep His commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him' (1 John 1:6, 2:4; c.f. Matt. 7:21-23). The Puritans talked of the "Perseverance of the Saints." All God's people will persevere to the end, but it is necessary that they do persevere. 'Do not be deceived!'

Certainly no sinner has any self generated claim to glory, we are wretched sinners. But, somehow, when God alone, by His will alone, chooses to transfer a lost wretched sinner spiritually into Christ, we are then "glorified."

When a sinners repents and puts his trust in Christ, He is justified (declared righteous) by God, and by the New Birth he enters into all the glorious inheritance of God (1 Peter 1:3-5). But he's not there yet! He may be like the heroes of faith in Hebrews 11 - 'They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins.......etc. Not much glory in that lot, but it was coming down the track to them "Already, but not yet."

Certainly we can say that may mean we have been "clothed" in glory in that we are then "in Christ." But is that the idea? I think not.

I think so.

In 1 Thessalonians 2:12, scripture teaches that when we are called into His kingdom we are also transferred into His glory.

No it doesn't. 1 Thes. 2:12. '...That you would walk worthy of God who calls you into His own kingdom and glory.' No mention of being "transferred" anywhere.

In John 17:23 we see that His Disciples were "perfected" in unity, or being at one with God. Thus, when each person is transferred spiritually into Christ, such that they are in Christ, and when indwelt, Christ (and God the Father) are in them, they being made perfect might also refer to they being glorified.

No mention of being "transferred" anywhere in John 17:23. The reference is to the mystical union of the believer with Christ.

1 John 3:2. 'Beloved, now we are the children of God, and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him [but not before], for we shall see Him as He is.'

 

[Van]

"So certain is our arrival in heaven that the apostle puts it into the past tense. But where is our glorified body (Phil. 3:21). It's coming, but not yet."

The above snippet from post #2 rewrites scripture according the speculation of man.

Is our arrival in Heaven certain if we are saved? Yes. Does that mean the inspired Paul did not literally mean we are not spiritually in Christ who is in Heaven. Nope, God's word means what it says. Man's logic says we cannot be in two places at the same time, spiritually in Christ in heaven (technically in the heavenly) but physically on earth. Read Ephesians 2:6, we are seated in the heavenly with Christ.

Consider that the third "heaven" is the abode of God, so where God resides is in the "heavenly" or abode of God. So if we are indwelt, then the heavenly is spiritually within our physical bodies, Luke 17:21, at the same time our spiritual bodies are in Christ seated at the right hand of the Father. Colossians 3:1

Footnote, if we are called into a place, we are spiritually brought into that place, i.e. transferred. Thus those saved have been called into glory!

Pay no attention to Calvinists who deny Colossians 1:13, or that other terms like baptized into, called into, believed into, given to, all refer to that transferred. They seem to believe we end up "in Christ" without being put into Christ. I kid you not!!

 

[Van]

No mention of being "transferred" anywhere in John 17:23. The reference is to the mystical union of the believer with Christ.

When God establishes us in Christ, the result is our spiritual union with Christ, we are "in Him" and He is "in us." I believe this creation of our union with Christ is our "glorification" putting us in union with His glory.

 

[Van]

I think we need to be very careful here. Ephesians 2:6 tells us that we have been raised up and have been made to sit together in the heavenly places.

Thanks for the response. I addressed your views in posts #3 and 4.

Our main difference is I believe we have been spiritually reborn, no longer spiritually dead in sin, but made spiritually alive together with Christ.

The transfer from being separated from God to being together with Christ means we have been baptized into Christ, transferred into Christ, given to Christ, and called into Christ's kingdom.

 

[Van]

Not to put to fine a point on it, but when we are transferred into Christ spiritually, we are then "in Him" and after we undergo the washing of regeneration (thus born anew) we are spiritually indwelt, thus Christ is in us. This "union" is, I believe, our "glorification."

Romans 8:30b NASB
and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Called = transferred into Christ
Justified = the result of undergoing the washing of regeneration
Glorified = the result of being in union with Christ, Us in Him and Him in Us.

 

[Van]

John 15:4 NASB
“Remain in Me, and I in you. Just as the branch cannot bear fruit of itself but must remain in the vine, so neither can you unless you remain in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches; the one who remains in Me, and I in him bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.

Unless we are in union with Christ, we cannot bear fruit, or put another way, our bearing fruit demonstrates our glorification.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Not to put to fine a point on it, but when we are transferred into Christ spiritually, we are then "in Him" and after we undergo the washing of regeneration (thus born anew) we are spiritually indwelt, thus Christ is in us. This "union" is, I believe, our "glorification."

Romans 8:30b NASB
and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Called = transferred into Christ
Justified = the result of undergoing the washing of regeneration
Glorified = the result of being in union with Christ, Us in Him and Him in Us.

Writing things in bold print does not keep them from being wrong.
Called means "called."
Justified means "declared righteous" (Deut 25:1; Luke 10:29, NKJV).

 

[Van]

Writing things in bold print does not keep them from being wrong.
Called means "called."
Justified means "declared righteous" (Deut 25:1; Luke 10:29, NKJV).

Folks, this poster thinks we are not called into His kingdom, 1 Peter 2:9, 1 Corinthians 1:9,