• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

How are we supposed to harmonize Ge 17:17 and Ro 4:19-21

B

Bruthon1

New Member
Hey guys new to the forum here and wanted to say hello and greetings in the Lord to everyone here!

I was just doing some deep bible study on Romans 4, got to Romans 4:19-21 and meditated on it for a little while.
We are given earlier in the chapter Ge 15:6 is used to show that righteousness was reckoned to Abraham of faith in God's promise to him. (No clue of doubting or wavering in Genesis 15 that I could find).

However, in Ro 4:19-21 it says that Abraham while he was about 100 years old (referring to the account in Ge 17),

Ge 17:1
And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

did not waver in faith at all but believed in spite of everything going against him. But didn't he waver though?

Ge 17:17-18
17 Then Abraham fell upon his face, and laughed, and said in his heart, Shall a child be born unto him that is an hundred years old? and shall Sarah, that is ninety years old, bear?
18 And Abraham said unto God, O that Ishmael might live before thee!

One explanation I was thinking about is after this account in Ge 17 there was an unrecorded time where Abraham was fully persuaded.
 
V

Van

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Without becoming weak in faith he contemplated his own body, now as good as dead since he was about a hundred years old, and the deadness of Sarah’s womb;

yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,

and being fully assured that what God had promised, He was able also to perform.

Therefore IT WAS ALSO CREDITED TO HIM AS RIGHTEOUSNESS.

I think "without becoming weak in faith" answers your difficulty. He considered how unlikely God's promise would be without supernatural action of God's part, laughing at the absurdity of procreating past 90, but ended up believing all the more in God's promise. I think Genesis 17 indicates Abraham believed God fully and went ahead was underwent circumcision.
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Here is Abraham's faith!... Brother Glen:)

Genesis 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

So is our Faith what we do for God or what God does for us?... We do have a faith walk but we don't walk to be saved we walk because we already are!... Oh and welcome to the BB, Bruthon1



 
I

Iconoclast

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
omans 4:20 yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God, (NASB: Lockman)

Greek: eis de ten epaggelian tou theou ou diekrithe (3SAPI) te apistia all' enedunamothe (3SAPI) te pistei, dous (AAPMSN) doxan to theo

Amplified: Abraham never wavered in believing God's promise. In fact, his faith grew stronger, and in this he brought glory to God. (Amplified Bible -
Welcome to Baptistboard;
Romans 4:19-21 Commentary | Precept Austin


Lockman)

NLT: Abraham never wavered in believing God's promise. In fact, his faith grew stronger, and in this he brought glory to God. (NLT - Tyndale House)

Phillips: Yet he refused to allow any distrust of a definite pronouncement of God to make him waver. He drew strength from his faith, and while giving the glory to God, (Phillips: Touchstone)

Wuest: Moreover, in view of the promise of God, he did not vacillate in the sphere of unbelief between two mutually exclusive expectations but was strengthened with respect to his faith, having given glory to God,

Young's Literal: yet, with respect to the promise of God, he did not waver in unbelief, but grew strong in faith, giving glory to God,
Faith turns from natural impossibilities to rely upon the word of God. Faith therefore becomes the instrument of man’s part in putting him into definite relationship with God Himself.

Abraham’s faith was not perfect, just as no believer’s faith is perfect. The first test he had to face was a famine in Canaan, and Abraham went to Egypt for help instead of to God. That disobedience put him in a compromising situation with the Pharaoh. He claimed that his beautiful wife was his sister, fearing that the Pharaoh might kill him in order to have her for himself. In so doing, Abraham dishonored the Lord and caused plagues to come upon the pharaoh’s family (Ge 12:10-17).Despite his spiritual imperfection, Abraham always came back to the Lord in faith, and the Lord honored that faith and continued to renew his promises to Abraham.

The Lord gave repeated assurances to Abraham, and Abraham responded in faith, which God “reckoned … to him as righteousness” (Ge 15:6). But again, when testing came, he relied on his own judgment rather than the Lord’s word. When Sarah was getting beyond normal childbearing age and remained barren, Abraham took her foolish advice and took matters into his own hands. He committed adultery with Hagar, Sarah’s maid, in the hope of having a male heir by her. But (as always happens with disobedience) his disobedient act backfired and again caused misery to the innocent (Ge 16:1-15). He also brought future misery to his own descendants, with whom the Arab descendants of Ishmael, the son by Hagar, would be in continuous conflict, as they are to this day.

Despite his spiritual imperfection, Abraham always came back to the Lord in faith, and the Lord honored that faith and continued to renew his promises to Abraham. God miraculously caused Sarah to bear a son in her old age, the son whom God had promised to give Abraham. And when the greatest test of all came, Abraham did not waver in his trust of the Lord. When God commanded him to sacrifice Isaac, the only human means through which the promise could be fulfilled, Abraham responded with immediate obedience, and God responded by providing a substitute for Isaac (Ge 22:1-18 Heb 11:17-19). As is always the case with true belief, the Holy Spirit enlightened Abraham’s mind and heart to recognize the true and only God, and enabled him to respond in faith. Abraham saw the Promised Land and wandered through it as a nomad, but he never possessed it. Even his descendants did not possess the land until more than a half century after the promise of it was first given. Just as Abraham trusted God’s word to give him a land he had never seen, he trusted God’s power to raise Isaac from the dead, if necessary by a divine miracle he had never seen.


Abe was strengthened. Note the passive voice describing the effect of his faith growing stronger signifies that the growth come from outside himself, ultimately from God the Source of our faith.
 
SavedByGrace

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
"Then Abraham fell on his face and laughed and said to himself, “Shall a child be born to a man who is a hundred years old? Shall Sarah, who is ninety years old, bear a child?” And Abraham said to God, “Oh that Ishmael might live before you!” God said, “No, but Sarah your wife shall bear you a son, and you shall call his name Isaac. I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him." (Genesis 17:17-19)

Abraham "laughs" at the prospect that humanly speaking it was not possible for a couple in their 90's to bear children. God, Who foreknows all things, Who saw the reaction of Abraham before it even happened, said that his son would be called "Isaac", which in the Hebrew means "he laughs"! There is no suggestion in either the Old or New Testaments, that Abraham's spiritual faith in Yahweh, was anything but strong. In Hebrews chapter 11, the famous one on Faith, we read of Abraham, when called upon by the Lord, to offer this same son, Isaac, whom he loved very much, as a sacrifice to Him.

" By faith Abraham, when he was tested, offered up Isaac, and he who had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, of whom it was said, “In Isaac your seed shall be called,” concluding that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead, from which he also received him in a figurative sense." (17-19)

Abraham had already been told in Genesis 17, that through his son Isaac, says the Lord, "I will establish my covenant with him as an everlasting covenant for his offspring after him." (19). So, when the Lord "tested" Abraham to take his son and offer him up, by killing him, Abraham already believed in his heart, that, since the Lord was to do mighty things through his son Isaac, that he could not really kill him. But, even if the Lord did allow this, that He was Able to raise Isaac from the dead! THIS, is very powerful faith and trust in the Living God! Genesis 17 shows the contrast between the "human" and the "Divine". What is not possible humanly, is always possible with the Lord!
 
Earth Wind and Fire

Earth Wind and Fire

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
tyndale1946 said:
Here is Abraham's faith!... Brother Glen:)

Genesis 22:5 And Abraham said unto his young men, Abide ye here with the ass; and I and the lad will go yonder and worship, and come again to you.

22:6 And Abraham took the wood of the burnt offering, and laid it upon Isaac his son; and he took the fire in his hand, and a knife; and they went both of them together.

22:7 And Isaac spake unto Abraham his father, and said, My father: and he said, Here am I, my son. And he said, Behold the fire and the wood: but where is the lamb for a burnt offering?

22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

22:9 And they came to the place which God had told him of; and Abraham built an altar there, and laid the wood in order, and bound Isaac his son, and laid him on the altar upon the wood.

22:10 And Abraham stretched forth his hand, and took the knife to slay his son.

22:11 And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.

22:12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.

22:13 And Abraham lifted up his eyes, and looked, and behold behind him a ram caught in a thicket by his horns: and Abraham went and took the ram, and offered him up for a burnt offering in the stead of his son.

So is our Faith what we do for God or what God does for us?... We do have a faith walk but we don't walk to be saved we walk because we already are!... Oh and welcome to the BB, Bruthon1
Click to expand...
What he said :Thumbsup
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Bruthon1 said:
did not waver in faith at all but believed in spite of everything going against him. But didn't he waver though?
Click to expand...
From our point of view, he wavered...
From God's point of view, he didn't.;)

True Biblical faith, the faith "of" ( by or from ) Jesus Christ ( Galatians 2:16-10, Hebrews 12:2 ) endures when all seems lost...
Even in the face of "certain" doom, failure, "evidence to the contrary", etc.
Believers walk ( live this life ) by faith ( trusting God at His word ) not by sight ( our senses or what seems right ).

Other examples:

Daniel
David
Paul
Peter
Jacob
Job
John the Baptist
Elijah
Joshua
Moses

So...if a person gives up and walks away from God and back to the world,
their confidence and belief of God's words failed and it was all built on sand.
If a person sticks it out through thick and thin, like Stephen did, then their faith was found to be built on the Rock.

Under trials ( tests of faith, etc ), instead of doubt towards God and His words creeping into one's mind and being ultimately rejected, it takes over.


As another example of true faith, please see Daniel 3:13-30.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top