It was a lot more than just the French helping us
Here are 10 additional reasons
So, do you think there are other reasons?
Here are 10 additional reasons
So, do you think there are other reasons?
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How did the unorganized militias beat England in 1776
- Thread starter Salty
- Start date
Some Rando
Member
I would say that #'s 2,4, 7,9,10 are/were the most significant.
I think it is something of an American Origins Myth how overwhelmingly significant the "guerrilla tactics" were. The British were some of the best in the world at it at the time, Roger's Rangers, Delancey's Brigade, The British legion led by Bannistre Tarleton and others were some of the best who fought in that war. They had largely learned this in the Americas during the French and Indian War and the Colonists likewise learned it at the same time. I will acknowledge that for riflemen and rifle regiments, Daniel Morgan's regiment (and Morgan himself) were a force of nature.
As far as French support goes, It was not merely material support, but that after Saratoga both France and Spain declared war on Britain thus turning the Revolution into the first World-wide War. Thus, Britain now had a world-wide empire to protect and had to split its concerns throughout the whole of its dominions.
To be honest, people hate to hear this, but, IMO (I am not alone in this) the greatest hero of the American Revolution was Benedict Arnold. This makes his subsequent treachery all the more tragic. But, I would almost go so far as to say that America would not have won if it weren't for his heroics. Amongst other things, we largely must credit Arnold for the American victory at Saratoga.
I would also beg to differ with the assertion that unorganized militias defeated the British in 1776. Unorganized militias nearly always lost to professional units and often in spectacular fashion. They were unruly, often refused to leave their colony of origin, deserted regularly, and tended to refuse to sign anything more than a maximum 1 year enlistment.
To quote Washington:
"To place any dependence upon militia is assuredly resting upon a broken staff."
It was this very truism (and the hyper-aggression of Tarleton) that led to the spectacular victory at Cowpens. (This is what was being fictionalized in the final battle in the film the Patriot) and it was probably the most historically accurate portion of the film.
Washington wanted a trained disciplined, organized, and professional army, and after Valley Forge, in many ways, he got one. And American battlefield performance showed marked improvement afterwards.
I somewhat differ with the Nationalism assertion with respect to #1
I won't go into it, but, that's kind of part of our Origins Myth as well and accounts for the most influential players on the American side (thinking here of larger-than-life characters such as Samuel Adams). But it explains at most roughly 1/3 of the American population as a whole, and the data is sketchy.
I would add two more to this list:
1.) This was a logistical impossibility for the British. This goes along with #10. The Americans were many things but, poor was not one of them. As a nation, even mighty Britain could never hope to fight a huge, sustained, decade long war 2,000 miles away and hope to win. They had always assumed (not unjustifiably) an enormous ground-swell of support in the Americas even as late as 1781-82 and that, of course, never materialized.
2.) Lack of support/political will on the part of the British specifically the British Parliament sometime after the drubbing taken at Saratoga.
While a majority in Parliament, those who wished to continue the war in America (and fund it specifically) it was a small majority and one that was ever at risk of losing its power.
Lord North, the Prime Minister had a full-time job simply convincing very small majorities to continue to fight the war. Furthermore, he was up against some extremely talented political opponents such as Charles James Fox and William Pitt (the Younger).
Sorry, I went on so long. This is probably the most fascinating era of American (and British) history for me.
I think it is something of an American Origins Myth how overwhelmingly significant the "guerrilla tactics" were. The British were some of the best in the world at it at the time, Roger's Rangers, Delancey's Brigade, The British legion led by Bannistre Tarleton and others were some of the best who fought in that war. They had largely learned this in the Americas during the French and Indian War and the Colonists likewise learned it at the same time. I will acknowledge that for riflemen and rifle regiments, Daniel Morgan's regiment (and Morgan himself) were a force of nature.
As far as French support goes, It was not merely material support, but that after Saratoga both France and Spain declared war on Britain thus turning the Revolution into the first World-wide War. Thus, Britain now had a world-wide empire to protect and had to split its concerns throughout the whole of its dominions.
To be honest, people hate to hear this, but, IMO (I am not alone in this) the greatest hero of the American Revolution was Benedict Arnold. This makes his subsequent treachery all the more tragic. But, I would almost go so far as to say that America would not have won if it weren't for his heroics. Amongst other things, we largely must credit Arnold for the American victory at Saratoga.
I would also beg to differ with the assertion that unorganized militias defeated the British in 1776. Unorganized militias nearly always lost to professional units and often in spectacular fashion. They were unruly, often refused to leave their colony of origin, deserted regularly, and tended to refuse to sign anything more than a maximum 1 year enlistment.
To quote Washington:
"To place any dependence upon militia is assuredly resting upon a broken staff."
It was this very truism (and the hyper-aggression of Tarleton) that led to the spectacular victory at Cowpens. (This is what was being fictionalized in the final battle in the film the Patriot) and it was probably the most historically accurate portion of the film.
Washington wanted a trained disciplined, organized, and professional army, and after Valley Forge, in many ways, he got one. And American battlefield performance showed marked improvement afterwards.
I somewhat differ with the Nationalism assertion with respect to #1
I won't go into it, but, that's kind of part of our Origins Myth as well and accounts for the most influential players on the American side (thinking here of larger-than-life characters such as Samuel Adams). But it explains at most roughly 1/3 of the American population as a whole, and the data is sketchy.
I would add two more to this list:
1.) This was a logistical impossibility for the British. This goes along with #10. The Americans were many things but, poor was not one of them. As a nation, even mighty Britain could never hope to fight a huge, sustained, decade long war 2,000 miles away and hope to win. They had always assumed (not unjustifiably) an enormous ground-swell of support in the Americas even as late as 1781-82 and that, of course, never materialized.
2.) Lack of support/political will on the part of the British specifically the British Parliament sometime after the drubbing taken at Saratoga.
While a majority in Parliament, those who wished to continue the war in America (and fund it specifically) it was a small majority and one that was ever at risk of losing its power.
Lord North, the Prime Minister had a full-time job simply convincing very small majorities to continue to fight the war. Furthermore, he was up against some extremely talented political opponents such as Charles James Fox and William Pitt (the Younger).
Sorry, I went on so long. This is probably the most fascinating era of American (and British) history for me.
Last edited:
Some Rando
Member
Just noticed I never saw your second link Salty, I read the first in the OP and thought the second was the same thing lol 
Your second link addresses a lot of the things I said above.
Your second link addresses a lot of the things I said above.