how does the bible work?

[xdisciplex]

Does the bible itself make any statements on how it's supposed to work?
I mean if the bible works like an instructional book with warnings and prohibitions which the christians read and memorize and then recall in the situations where they are needed then where exactly is the supernatural part in this? Then it's not the Holy Spirit who does the work and who causes the change, then it's simply the people which learn, memorize and later on apply the stuff which they read.
Where is the difference between this and the quran? The muslims can do exactly the same. They can also read and memorize what's good and bad and then apply it.
I think this stinks. If it's all about me and if I have to cause all the changes then what's it worth?
Where is the supernatural part in this? I want to see God do something. I don't want to struggle and try to sculpture myself.
If the bible is all about simply learning rules and guidelines and then applying them then there is nothing supernatural at all. I thought that there is also a supernatural part where God simply changes you without you doing anything. But I cannot see this on myself. I struggle with the same stuff I have always struggled with. There is no miraculous victory. The only difference is that I'm more aware of my sins but there is no change. Where is the sense of always feeling bad and still not being able to change it? This is simply frustrating.
And then the bible talks about having died to sin and all this stuff. I don't know what to think about this. Basically I can either be dragged down by it because I'm not dead to sin or I can simply try to give it a different meaning or to relativize it but if I relativize it then it becomes nothing more than a phrase. Something which you read and which sounds good and then you think: "Yes, but in reality it's totally different..."
This is so frustrating. I wish I could see some changes but I don't. And this also makes me insecure and makes me doubt everything because when I don't really see changes which I can say are clearly from God then I can question everything and think that maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm simply on a religious trip but the real power of the gospel which is supposed to really change the people isn't there. This makes everything look so ineffective and weak.
What if I simply can't improve anymore? What do I do then?

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

The Lord Jesus Christ said in John 14:

26 (KJV) But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

You can memorize all you want, but it is the Spirit who brings what you have memorized from God's Holy Word to your remembrance.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

I want to see God do something.

For we walk by faith not by sight. Jesus, after His resurrection told Thomas that those who believe without seeing are those who are more blessed.

 

[DQuixote]

I mean if the bible works like an instructional book with warnings and prohibitions which the christians read and memorize and then recall in the situations where they are needed then where exactly is the supernatural part in this? Then it's not the Holy Spirit who does the work and who causes the change, then it's simply the people which learn, memorize and later on apply the stuff which they read.
Where is the difference between this and the quran? The muslims can do exactly the same. They can also read and memorize what's good and bad and then apply it. I think this stinks.

You wrote all that. None of it is true. You wrote it. So your analysis stinks. I think people are going to have to confront your internal Q&A if they are going to make any headway. I don't know. Tough assignment. Do you still live at home? What do your parents think? Girlfriend? Neighbors? Can you walk up to a cop on the street and just visit?

 

[J. Jump]

You can memorize all you want, but it is the Spirit who brings what you have memorized from God's Holy Word to your remembrance.

Hold on to your seat, but HBSMN and I actually agree on something :laugh: .

 

[BobRyan]

Does the bible itself make any statements on how it's supposed to work?
I mean if the bible works like an instructional book with warnings and prohibitions which the christians read and memorize and then recall in the situations where they are needed then where exactly is the supernatural part in this? Then it's not the Holy Spirit who does the work and who causes the change, then it's simply the people which learn, memorize and later on apply the stuff which they read.
Where is the difference between this and the quran? The muslims can do exactly the same. They can also read and memorize what's good and bad and then apply it.
I think this stinks. If it's all about me and if I have to cause all the changes then what's it worth?
Where is the supernatural part in this? I want to see God do something. I don't want to struggle and try to sculpture myself.

Heb 4 "The Word of God is LIVING and ACTIVE and sharper than a two edged sword".

Eph 6 "PUT on the FULL Armor of God SO THAT you may stand -- and having done EVERYTHING stand firm against the devil."

If you simply "toy" with the Word of God - you get nothing. If it is all a game to you - a puzzle to be worked, a basis for asking a zillion puzzling questions without actually diving in -- then you are always holding freedom at arm's length.

The bible is not a science text or a how-to manual - it is the "Word of God".

The "supernatural" aspect is that as you READ the Bible the Holy Spirit draws near - if you are doing this in prayer - taking time with it... even praying THROUGH the Bible -- then HE SPEAKS to your heart while you read!

But if you treat the book as "so much national geographic" to be criticisized, doubted, and tossed about in some kind of game - the Holy Spirit stands back and you miss the "encounter".

If the bible is all about simply learning rules and guidelines and then applying them then there is nothing supernatural at all. I thought that there is also a supernatural part where God simply changes you without you doing anything.

"Be STILL and know that I am God" -- He says that because you DO have to do something -- you have to STOP playing games - stop toying with God.. Stop, listen, be still --- then READ in an attitude of prayer.

Open your Bible with the prayer "Create in me a clean heart oh God"

But I cannot see this on myself. I struggle with the same stuff I have always struggled with. There is no miraculous victory. The only difference is that I'm more aware of my sins but there is no change. Where is the sense of always feeling bad and still not being able to change it? This is simply frustrating.
And then the bible talks about having died to sin and all this stuff. I don't know what to think about this. Basically I can either be dragged down by it because I'm not dead to sin or I can simply try to give it a different meaning or to relativize it but if I relativize it then it becomes nothing more than a phrase.

You can't "out think God" -- this is not a quiz.

Go to God in prayer - set your case before him... Go ahead and Complain some - but then hold up to God the promises of scripture in prayer. Stay in prayer "wait" -- don't simply jump up and run off as if this was an encounter with a magic lamp that did not work.

This is so frustrating. I wish I could see some changes but I don't. And this also makes me insecure and makes me doubt everything because when I don't really see changes which I can say are clearly from God then I can question everything and think that maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm simply on a religious trip but the real power of the gospel which is supposed to really change the people isn't there. This makes everything look so ineffective and weak.
What if I simply can't improve anymore? What do I do then?

Your "supposed" to be "Giving up"!

That is the whole point!

Your supposed to stop - and let God -- by quiting all the games all the quizes all the "tell me how is God going to figure that one out" style games where you are not in the Bible, not in prayer and mediation - but just playing games with the board.

In Rev 3 we find God "Standing at the door and knocking - IF ANYONE hears his voice and opens the door HE WILL come in".

In Matt 11 at the end of the Chapter Christ said "LISTEN everyone - COME to me all you who Labor and are heavy ladened and I will give you rest".

In Isaiah 55 "LISTEN everyone who thirsts COME to the waters"

God calls out to ALL - but trying to "game God" does not work. When you come to him - you have to surrender.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Brother Bob]

2 Tim. 3:
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't think I could add anything to this.

 

[DeeJay]

Well lets think of the Bible as a text book for a minute.

Think of the Bible as a text book with basic info for living. Then think of the Holy Spirit as your on the job trainer. You read the Bible for information on how to live and how to be saved. Your on the job trainer reminds you of the information you have read when you are on the job and also adds His information that you need to know. Both reading the text bood and listining to the instructor are important and needed to do the job right.

Ok I took a shot at useing your analogy.

Oh and the difference between the Bible and the quran. Our text book has correct information. The quran has wrong information.

 

[music4Him]

John 8:36 If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

Rom. 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Gal. 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.

XDX~ your free! As far as reading the word, my husband has been reading for 20 years since he got saved and just now has been getting some of the nuggets. Pray and ask God to help you.

Jam 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

 

[DQuixote]

BobRyan got it right in his post #6. It's right on target for a change, xdx. You can take what he wrote to the bank -- God's bank.

raying: raying: raying:

 

[xdisciplex]

I think the problem is that I simply don't know how to approach the bible.
I mean I don't know if I shall study the bible the way I would study a normal book. If I had to learn stuff from a normal book I would take notes and then simply memorize them. This is how I learn for tests. I summarize everything and then write the important stuff on cards and then memorize it. I walk up and down in my room and repeat it for hours until I have memorized it and then when the test is over I forget it again.
But the bible isn't a normal book and I simply don't know how to study it. I mean if I sit there and write down important stuff and then memorize it then am I not trying to study the bible with my carnal mind? Isn't this the wrong approach? For example if the bible says what's good in God's eyes and what isn't and I simply write it down and then memorize it then I'm doing all the work and I'm the one who tries to change myself. I simply have a problem with this. Maybe I have wrong expectations but I thought that God does things automatically and that he works on us and changes us without us being aware of it. But if I am the one who has to do all the work then where's God in this? This is simply frustrating. I don't get any "victories" and no sense of achievement. The only thing which I do is notice when I did something wrong but it doesn't become better. Where's the sense of only being able to ask for forgiveness for the same things again and again but nothing changes? I cannot do anything about it. I cannot change myself or say to myself that from now on I will not get angry anymore and that I will not get negative thoughts and that I will love everybody. This simply doesn't work. I cannot do this. And this is exactly what frustrates me so much. I simply see no change. I thought that God would do these changes but I don't notice anything. Why am I not changing? I mean I cannot do more than talk to God and ask Him to change me, can I?
It's simply annoying when all you can do is complain about the same things time and time again but nothing changes. For example in situations where I get angry I can't help. And later I feel bad because I got angry but at the same time I cannot do anything against it. Great.
I simply do not see really huge changes about myself and this also fuels my insecurity because this gives me even more reason to question myself. It's much easier to question everything when you don't see huge results. I can question so many things and then everything becomes so vague. Or when the bible lists the fruits of the spirit and I don't have these things then how am I supposed to feel? I'm neither happy nor am I very patient nor am I very loving. Maybe on good days I am patient but on bad days I am totally impatient and also not friendly. But this is not how I imagine a christian. A christian should be like Jesus and Jesus was always friendly and patient and full of love. But I don't have this.

 

[DQuixote]

God does things automatically and that he works on us and changes us without us being aware of it. Why am I not changing? I mean I cannot do more than talk to God and ask Him to change me, can I?

You are very close to the truth here. God does things in our lives when we stop questioning him, stop debating him, stop presenting illogical scenarios, stop using faulty logic, stop advancing ridiculous arguments, stop internet searches for one preacher after another --- in short, just STOP all that. Jesus says that we find rest in him, not all the stuff that you wrestle with.

It's simply annoying when all you can do is complain about the same things time and time again but nothing changes.

SEE THE ABOVE!!!!! STOP COMPLAINING!!!!!

I simply do not see really huge changes about myself and this also fuels my insecurity because this gives me even more reason to question myself. It's much easier to question everything when you don't see huge results.

Amazing. You You You You. You do it all. Of course you get weary. It isn't your job to do it all.

A christian should be like Jesus and Jesus was always friendly and patient and full of love.

Exactly. Precisely. So when are you going to let God take over? The bible says that in all your ways you are to acknowledge him. As long as I've been on the BB I've never seen you acknowledge him until the first quote on this page, and this last quote. Take what I'm telling you to heart. STOP all this stuff you are doing. One poster after another tells you that. So when are you going to do that?

 

[webdog]

2 Tim. 3:
14: But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
15: And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

I don't think I could add anything to this.

Amen! THIS is how the Bible "works".

 

[Helen]

Actually, xdx, the Bible doesn't "work" -- God works. The Bible tells us how He does it. And how to follow Him.

Part of giving up to Him is dying to self, but 'self' is all most of us seem to be reading in most of your posts. Give up looking at yourself and look at Him and at others. Switch your attention and follow Him. That's really hard to do if all you are doing is examining yourself.

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Jesus was not always friendly and patient. He was always full of love though.

Remember the story of the moneychangers in the market place?

Remember those he called 'whited sepulchres?

The truth of the matter is, Jesus did get angry at times. And when He got angry, people knew it.

 

[bmerr]

xdx,

bmerr here. It's hard to know where to start sometimes. I suppose I'd remind you that you possess something that the people we read about in the Bible did not have. You have God's word in it's complete, written form. This by itself does not guarantee spiritual success, but it's a start.

As Bob pointed out earlier, we are to study God's word (2 Tim 2:15). The reason we are to study is that the Holy Spirit does not miraculously impart knowledge to men anymore. There is no need, since the word is complete and confirmed (1 Cor 13:10).

Before you get ahead of yourself, i'd suggest you study the book of Acts, and compare the accounts of conversions found there, making note of the similarities in each account. I believe you will find a pattern. Compare your "conversion experience" with what you find in the Bible, and determine if you have actually been saved, or if you have merely become religious. It happens quite often, I assure you.

In Christ,

bmerr

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Amen, bmerr!