How many here would be Evangelical Arminians in Theology?

[Yeshua1]

Based upon agreement with these main points of doctrine?
An Outline of the FACTS of Arminianism vs. The TULIP of Calvinism
ARMINIANISM

Arminianism may be represented by the acronym FACTS:

Freed by Grace (to Believe)
Atonement for All
Conditional Election
Total Depravity
Security in Christ

 

[Calminian]

If this is Arminianism, yes I'd probably fit into that category. However, it's pretty clear from the writings of Arminius that he did not believe in the security of believers, nor even in the security of the elect. That's why I feel like i'm in-between all views. There is clear evidence in Scripture that once saved and given the Spirit, man is compelled to never walk away from God. There's clear evidence that a fruit-bearing believer can never stop bearing fruit. There is also clear evidence, that God compels believers to persevere by various means, and that believers do not continue in willful habitual sin (1John).

Edit: after looking over the Security in Christ point, there is no commitment to eternal security, which is probably why they left the "eternal" part off. So I couldn't go along with the above. I do think the total depravity point was well stated and not pelagianistic.

 

[Just_Ahead]

Yeshua 1, thanks for the link above.

The Society of Evangelical Arminians (SEA) appears to be an interesting and friendly group.

 

[agedman]

From the article:

Freed by Grace {to Believe} (Article 4)

• Because of Total Depravity and Atonement for All (as described above), God calls all people everywhere to repent and believe the gospel, and graciously enables those who hear the gospel to respond to it positively in faith.
• God regenerates those who believe in Christ (faith logically precedes regeneration).
• God’s saving grace is resistible, which is to say that he dispenses his calling, drawing, and convicting grace (which would bring us to salvation if responded to with faith) in such a way that we may reject it. Those who hear the gospel may either accept it by grace or reject it to their own eternal destruction.
• Apart from the realm of pleasing the Lord and doing spiritual good, people often have free will, which means that, with respect to an action, they can at least either do the action or refrain from doing it. People often have genuine choices and are therefore correspondingly able to make choices.
• God has ultimate and absolute free will. His choice to supernaturally free the will of sinners by his grace to believe in Christ is a matter of the exercise of his own free will and sovereignty.

The points are all refutable.

That "God calls all people everywhere to repent and believe the gospel" is not a warrant to imply that God "graciously enables" all to hear the gospel and "to respond to it positively in faith."

Romans 9 " 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.​

One cannot believe unless they have been awoken (regenerated) to both the need and given the authority (Holy Spirit) to respond in belief. Regeneration does not follow but is part of the package which includes faith (belief). The Word brings both the ability to hear and the faith that redeems.

Romans 10 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved....17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.​

God's grace is never resistible. Mere humans have no ability to resist the goodness and mercy of God's undeserved favor toward humankind. Such foolish thinking places humankind as some kind of gate to the fold, where Christ stated HE was the door.

Romans 11: 5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.​

People (outside of those in which the Holy Spirit indwells) do certain freedom to select from all that is offered of the good and evil of THIS world. However, no such freedom to select is extended to the capability of such a person to select that which is perfect. For both and every good and perfect gift comes from above. And only the redeemed have been given that perfect gift.

James 1: 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 18Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.​

The last point expresses that God "supernaturally frees the will" in a human. He NEVER does such! Believers are a NEW creation. Not the old reformed or realigned. As a NEW creation that includes a new will. Such will from God wars against the old nature will.

Romans 12: 1I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.​

Enough foolish teaching is bound in just this one article to suspend the whole Arminian presentation from being Scripturally based.

 

[Yeshua1]

From the article:

Freed by Grace {to Believe} (Article 4)

• Because of Total Depravity and Atonement for All (as described above), God calls all people everywhere to repent and believe the gospel, and graciously enables those who hear the gospel to respond to it positively in faith.
• God regenerates those who believe in Christ (faith logically precedes regeneration).
• God’s saving grace is resistible, which is to say that he dispenses his calling, drawing, and convicting grace (which would bring us to salvation if responded to with faith) in such a way that we may reject it. Those who hear the gospel may either accept it by grace or reject it to their own eternal destruction.
• Apart from the realm of pleasing the Lord and doing spiritual good, people often have free will, which means that, with respect to an action, they can at least either do the action or refrain from doing it. People often have genuine choices and are therefore correspondingly able to make choices.
• God has ultimate and absolute free will. His choice to supernaturally free the will of sinners by his grace to believe in Christ is a matter of the exercise of his own free will and sovereignty.

The points are all refutable.

That "God calls all people everywhere to repent and believe the gospel" is not a warrant to imply that God "graciously enables" all to hear the gospel and "to respond to it positively in faith."

Romans 9 " 15For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy.​

One cannot believe unless they have been awoken (regenerated) to both the need and given the authority (Holy Spirit) to respond in belief. Regeneration does not follow but is part of the package which includes faith (belief). The Word brings both the ability to hear and the faith that redeems.

Romans 10 8But what does it say? “The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart” (that is, the word of faith that we proclaim); 9because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved....17So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.​

God's grace is never resistible. Mere humans have no ability to resist the goodness and mercy of God's undeserved favor toward humankind. Such foolish thinking places humankind as some kind of gate to the fold, where Christ stated HE was the door.

Romans 11: 5So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.​

People (outside of those in which the Holy Spirit indwells) do certain freedom to select from all that is offered of the good and evil of THIS world. However, no such freedom to select is extended to the capability of such a person to select that which is perfect. For both and every good and perfect gift comes from above. And only the redeemed have been given that perfect gift.

James 1: 16Do not be deceived, my beloved brothers. 17Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shadow due to change. 18Of his own will he brought us forth by the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.​

The last point expresses that God "supernaturally frees the will" in a human. He NEVER does such! Believers are a NEW creation. Not the old reformed or realigned. As a NEW creation that includes a new will. Such will from God wars against the old nature will.

Romans 12: 1I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.​

Enough foolish teaching is bound in just this one article to suspend the whole Arminian presentation from being Scripturally based.

I was just wondering if any here could agree with that group and their theology!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yeshua 1, thanks for the link above.

The Society of Evangelical Arminians (SEA) appears to be an interesting and friendly them on theology then? group.

Would you be in agreement with their theology then?

 

[Van]

There's clear evidence that a fruit-bearing believer can never stop bearing fruit. There is also clear evidence, that God compels believers to persevere by various means, and that believers do not continue in willful habitual sin (1John).

Drifting just a bit off topic, can you list a verse or two to support "never stopping bearing fruit" in light of people entering heaven as one escaping from a fire, and the "various means" God uses to "compel" believers to persevere in faith or fruit production?
I am not looking for an argument, but just a few references that might (or might not) alter my perspective. Thanks

 

[Calminian]

Drifting just a bit off topic, can you list a verse or two to support "never stopping bearing fruit" in light of people entering heaven as one escaping from a fire, and the "various means" God uses to "compel" believers to persevere in faith or fruit production?
I am not looking for an argument, but just a few references that might (or might not) alter my perspective. Thanks

One that comes to mind immediately is John 15.

John 15:1 “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2 He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful.​

Here we have a situation where false vines are cutoff, while true vines are caused by God the Father to become even more fruitful.

Some parables of Jesus support this also, like the parables of the talents and the sower. None of the soils, for instance, bear fruit except the last soil. None of the others are able to bring any fruit to maturity.

And in the talents parable, the servants that are faithful always multiplied their money to various degrees, while the faithless one did not.

 

[Van]

Security in Christ (Article 5)

• Since salvation comes through faith in Christ, the security of our salvation continues by faith in Christ. On the contrary, since salvation comes through God crediting our faith as righteousness, the security of our salvation continues by the power of God. 1 Peter 1:3-5.

• Just as the Holy Spirit empowered us to believe in Christ, so he empowers us to continue believing in Christ. On the contrary, the Holy Spirit inspired the gospel message, and provided guidance to the witnesses that helped us understand and embrace the gospel, but we fully committed to Christ (or not) and then God credited our faith as righteousness (or not). Once God puts an individual into Christ, God protects and keeps the person per 1 Peter 1:3-5.

• God protects our faith relationship with him from any outside force irresistibly snatching us away from Christ or our faith, and he preserves us in salvation as long as we trust in Christ. On the contrary, God's protection precludes those actually born anew from every losing their trust in Christ. 1 Peter 1:3-5

• Arminians have differing views of whether Scripture teaches that believers can forsake faith in Christ and so perish (the traditional view, held by most Arminians), or whether God irresistibly keeps believers from forsaking their faith and therefore entering into eternal condemnation (as unbelievers). Arminians that do not accept once saved, always saved do not understand 1 Peter 1:3-5.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His great mercy has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, to obtain an inheritance which is imperishable and undefiled and will not fade away, reserved in heaven for you, who are protected by the power of God through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.​

The Greek word translated "protected" refers to being kept, as in a locked jail cell, thus unable ourselves to leave the protection. Philippians 4:7, And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.

 

[thomas15]

If this is Arminianism, yes I'd probably fit into that category. However, it's pretty clear from the writings of Arminius that he did not believe in the security of believers, nor even in the security of the elect. That's why I feel like i'm in-between all views. There is clear evidence in Scripture that once saved and given the Spirit, man is compelled to never walk away from God. There's clear evidence that a fruit-bearing believer can never stop bearing fruit. There is also clear evidence, that God compels believers to persevere by various means, and that believers do not continue in willful habitual sin (1John).

Edit: after looking over the Security in Christ point, there is no commitment to eternal security, which is probably why they left the "eternal" part off. So I couldn't go along with the above. I do think the total depravity point was well stated and not pelagianistic.

Just a small point and understand that I'm nether Arminian or Augustian/Calvinist, but in it's pure sense reformed theology allows eternal security to only those whom they view as the elect. The elect must show proof of salvation through works. Since the Bible doesn't state how much good works are required of the elect, it is difficult to know for sure if the professing believer is of the elect. So, unless you are a John Piper, R.C. Sproul or B.B. Warfield, the reformed cannot honestly claim security either. Feel free to doubt me on this point so that I can then proceed to bury you under an avalanche of quotes from reformed theologians that teach this. Not that I want to debate this, again I have no dog in this fight.

As a side comment not directed to anyone in particular, but the bulk of what is generally "known" about James Arminius comes not directly from his writings but from his theological enemies who are less than slightly interested in being fair.

 

[Yeshua1]

Just a small point and understand that I'm nether Arminian or Augustian/Calvinist, but in it's pure sense reformed theology allows eternal security to only those whom they view as the elect. The elect must show proof of salvation through works. Since the Bible doesn't state how much good works are required of the elect, it is difficult to know for sure if the professing believer is of the elect. So, unless you are a John Piper, R.C. Sproul or B.B. Warfield, the reformed cannot honestly claim security either. Feel free to doubt me on this point so that I can then proceed to bury you under an avalanche of quotes from reformed theologians that teach this. Not that I want to debate this, again I have no dog in this fight.

As a side comment not directed to anyone in particular, but the bulk of what is generally "known" about James Arminius comes not directly from his writings but from his theological enemies who are less than slightly interested in being fair.

What do you think about the theology of that group in OP?

 

[thomas15]

What do you think about the theology of that group in OP?

Well I looked at the link but to be honest the whole thing just made my eyes glaze over.

 

[Calminian]

Just a small point and understand that I'm nether Arminian or Augustian/Calvinist, but in it's pure sense reformed theology allows eternal security to only those whom they view as the elect.

Generally, this is compatible with Arminian thinking also. Only the elect will be saved. None of the elect will be lost.

The difference is in how people become elect. Arminians and Calvinists disagree. But neither the classic arminian nor the calvinist would deny that God knows from the beginning who will persevere.

The elect must show proof of salvation through works. Since the Bible doesn't state how much good works are required of the elect, it is difficult to know for sure if the professing believer is of the elect. So, unless you are a John Piper, R.C. Sproul or B.B. Warfield, the reformed cannot honestly claim security either. Feel free to doubt me on this point so that I can then proceed to bury you under an avalanche of quotes from reformed theologians that teach this. Not that I want to debate this, again I have no dog in this fight.

No need to doubt, it's biblical. Paul said test yourselves, whether you be in the faith. Both Arminians and Calvinists believe in testing. The entire book of 1John is about this issue. Some hold you can lose your salvation, but all believe in testing yourselves for assurance to make God calling and election sure.

There is a a group that believes in past profession security, meaning believers can virtually apostate and still be saved because of their past profession. That group I would disagree with.

 

[Yeshua1]

Generally, this is compatible with Arminian thinking also. Only the elect will be saved. None of the elect will be lost.

The difference is in how people become elect. Arminians and Calvinists disagree. But neither the classic arminian nor the calvinist would deny that God knows from the beginning who will persevere.



No need to doubt, it's biblical. Paul said test yourselves, whether you be in the faith. Both Arminians and Calvinists believe in testing. The entire book of 1John is about this issue. Some hold you can lose your salvation, but all believe in testing yourselves for assurance to make God calling and election sure.

There is a a group that believes in past profession security, meaning believers can virtually apostate and still be saved because of their past profession. That group I would disagree with.

That group would be the ones that had an altar call say as a child experience, but never really showed any lasting fruit as being saved...

 

[Yeshua1]

Generally, this is compatible with Arminian thinking also. Only the elect will be saved. None of the elect will be lost.

The difference is in how people become elect. Arminians and Calvinists disagree. But neither the classic arminian nor the calvinist would deny that God knows from the beginning who will persevere.



No need to doubt, it's biblical. Paul said test yourselves, whether you be in the faith. Both Arminians and Calvinists believe in testing. The entire book of 1John is about this issue. Some hold you can lose your salvation, but all believe in testing yourselves for assurance to make God calling and election sure.

There is a a group that believes in past profession security, meaning believers can virtually apostate and still be saved because of their past profession. That group I would disagree with.

My reading of arminian theology seems to place emphasis upon corporate election of the Church, while we Calvinist tend to emphasis on individual election into Church!

 

[Calminian]

My reading of arminian theology seems to place emphasis upon corporate election of the Church, while we Calvinist tend to emphasis on individual election into Church!

You know, I'm not sure on that. I believe in personal individual election. I believe some Arminians go the corporate route. I don't think that works biblically. Too hard to justify from the text. I'd be curious what passages drive this interpretation.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I thought Arminians believed your could be lose your salvation.

I am neither reformed nor Arminian.

 

[Yeshua1]

I thought Arminians believed your could be lose your salvation.

I am neither reformed nor Arminian.

Their founder was not sure either way!

 

[Yeshua1]

You know, I'm not sure on that. I believe in personal individual election. I believe some Arminians go the corporate route. I don't think that works biblically. Too hard to justify from the text. I'd be curious what passages drive this interpretation.

The books recommended to read by those holding to Arm theology all were of corporate election route, as author held that God predestine there to be the church, but we by faith elected ourselves into it!

 

[Calminian]

I thought Arminians believed your could be lose your salvation.

I am neither reformed nor Arminian.

I feel like I'm in the same boat. Definitely believe in security. Definitely believe in God causing perseverance.

I know there are many professing Arms that hold to eternal security. Greg Laurie might be a good example.

Arminius, from his writings, appears to believe one could lose their salvation, and to be specific, their election. That's why it's difficult for me to embrace his label.