How many liberals does it take to win a war?

My moderate friends claim that:
1. liberals call them conservatives,
2. conservatives call them liberals.

 

From what Ive seen of the so called "moderates" in congress, a moderate just seems to me to be one who determines the mid-point of any issue, and does his darndest not to antagonize either side.

In other words, a jelly-belly with no backbone who is either a liberal or conservative depending on the audience at any given time. Or if a mixed crowd, you try to analyze what he said, and you realize he said nothing; just talked a lot.

I do see your point Ed, but I'm just extremely leery of anybody who seems to have no concrete convictions and see everything in shades of gray.

 

FYI


Democrats
* Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71.
* David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72.
* Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72.
* Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan.
1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade.
* Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor,
Vietnam.
* Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII.
* John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze
Star with Combat V, Purple Hearts.
* Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze
Star, Korea.
* Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star &
Bronze Star, Vietnam.
* Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53.
* Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve,
1968-74.
* Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army
Reserve 1979-91.
* Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze Star
and seven campaign ribbons.
* Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam,
DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal.
* Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple
Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit.
* Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne,
Purple Heart.
* Bill McBride: Candidate for Fla. Governor. Marine in
Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V.
* Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star.
* Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
* Chuck Robb: Vietnam
* Howell Heflin: Silver Star
* George McGovern: Silver Star & DFC during WWII.
* Bill Clinton: Did not serve. Student deferments.
Entered draft but received #311.
* Jimmy Carter: Seven years in the Navy. Graduate of Naval Academy, Annapolis, MD.
* Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953
* John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal
with 18 Clusters.
* Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII.
* Paul Hackett: Major, USMC, Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Republicans
* Dennis Hastert: did not serve.
* Tom Delay: did not serve.
* Roy Blunt: did not serve.
* Bill Frist: did not serve.
* Mitch McConnell: did not serve.
* Rick Santorum: did not serve.
* Trent Lott: did not serve.
* Dick Cheney: did not serve. Several deferments, the
last by marriage.
* John Ashcroft: did not serve. Seven deferments to
teach business.
* Jeb Bush: did not serve.
* Karl Rove: did not serve.
* Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The man
who attacked Cleland's patriotism.
* Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve.
* Vin Weber: did not serve.
* Richard Perle: did not serve.
* Douglas Feith: did not serve.
* Eliot Abrams: did not serve.
* Richard Shelby: did not serve.
* Jon Kyl: did not serve.
* Tim Hutchison: did not serve.
* Christopher Cox: did not serve.
* Newt Gingrich: did not serve.
* Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight
instructor.
* George W. Bush: failed to complete his six-year
Air National Guard tour of duty; got assigned to Alabama so he could
campaign for family friend running for U.S. Senate; failed to show up for required medical exam, disappeared from duty.
* Ronald Reagan: due to poor eyesight, served in a
non-combat role making movies.
* B-1 Bob Dornan: Consciously enlisted after fighting
was over in Korea.
* Phil Gramm: did not serve.
* John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of
Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross.
* Dana Rohrabacher: did not serve.
* John M. McHugh: did not serve.
* JC Watts: did not serve.
* Jack Kemp: did not serve. "Knee problem," although
continued in NFL for 8 years.
* Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National
Guard.
* Rudy Giuliani: did not serve.
* George Pataki: did not serve.
* Spencer Abraham: did not serve.
* John Engler: did not serve.
* Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer.
* Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army
base.
* John Bolton: "I didn't want to die in some South Asian rice paddy. . ."

Pundits & Preachers
* Sean Hannity: did not serve.
* Rush Limbaugh: did not serve (4-F with a
'pilonidal cyst.')
* Bill O'Reilly: did not serve.
* Michael Savage: did not serve.
* George Will: did not serve.
* Chris Matthews: did not serve.
* Paul Gigot: did not serve.
* Bill Bennett: did not serve.
* Pat Buchanan: did not serve.
* John Wayne: did not serve.
* Bill Kristol: did not serve.
* Kenneth Starr: did not serve.
* Antonin Scalia: did not serve.
* Clarence Thomas: did not serve.
* Ralph Reed: did not serve.
* Michael Medved: did not serve.
* Charlie Daniels: did not serve.
* Ted Nugent: did not serve. (He only shoots at
things that don't shoot back.)


Now I do not know for certain if the ones that
served meet you criterion or Eds ..I would suspect
they are from left to center...center to right
if they took the test.

 

What's your point, APAL???

Unfortunately, stupid people were and are allowed to serve in the armed forces, else there wouldn't be a Democrat on the list.

BTW, why on earth is John Wayne listed?

I was a little befuzzled when you wrote that Bill Clinton's number came up 311th. That was my dad's number. I had not known that they shared the same birthday, August 19th.

 

I have a feeling that ASLANSPAL was rather selective as to which Democrats and Republicans he chose to put in each list.

 

Obviously he was answering the OP's contention that only right-wingers are willing to fight and that all left-wingers are sniveling cowards by presenting evidence to the contrary.

By labeling all Democrats as "stupid" you only highlight your own lack of thought.

Perhaps you're too young to remember his political grandstanding.

Same year?

 

From what Ive seen of the so called "moderates" in congress, a moderate just seems to me to be one who determines the mid-point of any issue, and does his darndest not to antagonize either side.

In other words, a jelly-belly with no backbone who is either a liberal or conservative depending on the audience at any given time. Or if a mixed crowd, you try to analyze what he said, and you realize he said nothing; just talked a lot.

I do see your point Ed, but I'm just extremely leery of anybody who seems to have no concrete convictions and see everything in shades of gray. </font>[/QUOTE]Most issues are shades of grey; the inability or unwillingness to distinguish that does explain the extremists' blind attitude.

 

Well, Harkin did serve in the Navy during the Vietnam War, which is more than Cheney, Rove or Wolfowitz did, but not in Vietnam or other combat zones. That he subsequently lied about how he served makes him a liar and fraud, but not a coward.

Since this thread is about cowardice, he does belong on the not-one list.

 

Does Bush likewise get credit for serving in the military and recieving an honorable discharge, I believe, during, but not in, the Vietnam War?

Joseph Botwinick

 

I don't see where any of this matters. The people who make policy, after being voted in by the American people, are going to make policy, regardless of whether they served in the military or not.

 

Sort of, the difference being that Harkin served in the Navy in active service which deployed him as they saw fit as opposed to pulling strings to get into the National Guard and never seeing active service (and not bothering to show up for almost a year).

Inflammatory lies should not be allowed to stand unanswered.

True enough, but what has that got to do with this thread which began by calling liberals miserable cowards who refuse to fight?

 

I think his enlisting despite his father's objections keeps him off the coward-list. Are you ready to admit that the premise of the poem, of your OP, is bogus?

And Aslanspal did include Clinton on the no-fight list.

(Please note that I assume you simply made a mistake of fact).

 

Thanks for sharing this with us, Carpro! I share the sentiments that Russ expressed, if not literally on every count, then at least in principle.

The "peace at any cost" liberal anti-war crowd is still alive and well in this latest war. Many examples are seen right here on this BaptistBoard.

When war comes to their back yards, and then their front doors, what will they scream? How will they propose negotiating with the enemy who becomes the conqueror? To whose home will they flee when there are none left free? Who will they ask to save them once they have been subdued, made subservient, oppressed, and, God forbid, perhaps even tortured and abused? Will they then demand liberty at any cost from their captors?

 

Then what, in your own words?

"The wolves of Jihad smell your dread, can smell your craven breath,
And emboldened by the fear they scent, lust for our bloody death."

I guess we were fooled by the words.