How Many Of Your Rights Have Been Violated Today?

[poncho]

I just moved from one apartment to another (in the same building) so, I had to have my utilities moved also.

The utility companies each had their turn at trying to violate my rights. They make no excuses for it at all.

I call the gas company...they asked for my social secutiy number.

I call the electric company...they ask for my social security number.

I call the phone company...they ask for my social security number...and thats on top of the poor service and overpricing.

I call my ISP...guess what...they ask for my social security number.

I went to Radio Shack to buy a phone card (because of the bad service of the phone company) and they asked for my social security number.

I went to the bank...they asked for my social security number.

Everybody asks for your social security number. Not one of them has ever told me that, that information can only be volunteered (that is the law, remember?) They all seem stupified when I tell them I will not give out my social security number. They tell me that it is required information (which is a lie, and unlawful) Social security is now and always has been a voluntary system (same as the income tax). There is no law saying that I have to give this information out, just as there is no law saying I have to file a tax return.

To ask for my social security number, violates the fourth amendment, and to deny me service because I will not give this information out is unlawful and I could not only hold the utility company liable for this practice...I can also hold the individual accountable for violation of my rights.

I am tired of telling these companies and people that work for them of my rights as an American and to have them smirk at me like I am some kind of wacko. I know I am not the only one in this country having my rights violated everday...so I would like to hear from others on this subject.

How many times have you had your rights violated today?

 

[Pastor Larry]

So don't give it to them ... It is easy ... Just say no ...

 

[Bible Believing Bill]

Sorry Poncho there is a law that says you have to file a tax return if your income is above a certian level. If you choose not to you are in violation of the law. I don't know anyone who would pay income tax if they weren't required by law to do it.


Social Security is NOT a voluntary system. FICA taxes are deducted from my pay check weather I want them taken out or not, that is far from voluntary.


As to the legality of asking for your SSN I don't know if that is legal or not.

Bill

 

[poncho]

Bible Believing Bill,

Please, Please, Please, show me these laws in black and white...Please, Please, Please.

 

[poncho]

Take your time looking for them BBB, heres a hint start with section 862 in the IRS code. Those are the only folks that must pay income tax. Do you fit any of these criteria?

Social Security, FICA taxes are deducted from your pacheck because you vounteered by filing a w-4 form...there is another way.

Next time you go past the gun store in your town go in and ask to read their BATF application (Brady Law) it says SSN optional. It is not required. Most applications for employment will say the same thing. To ask for anothers SSN is a violation of the fourth amendment.

 

[go2church]

Like they don't have it already! With all the injustices out there the best you could come up with is someone asking you for a series of numbers? Watch out for the black helicopters and it would be a good time to start burying food in the backyard...oh wait you don't have a backyard! Now what?

 

[poncho]

Not only is social security voluntary, but, your Mom and Dad can volunteer you on your birthday, your very first birthday. Ever notice how fast the nurses have that groggy new mother and stressed out new Father sign all those papers, like the birth certificate. This is what volunteers you into the system. Like Pastor Larry says, it's easy, just say no.

Please show me the law that says you have to have a birth certificate. Please, Please, Please.

 

[poncho]

My dearest Go2church, I do have a back yard. I look at it like this, if you let the little things slide long enough, like we have sooner or later you will live in a comunist country like we do. Oh, you still still believe we live in a democracy, right?

 

[Gina B]

Asking for it is not against the law, but requiring it is.
However, if you refuse to give it to them they have the right to ask for two additional identifications, usually a birth certificate and a driver's license. Most people don't carry those, but if giving out your social security number bothers you, carry the other forms of id on your person and a copy of the law, because most people are not aware of it. It may be a bit of a pain as you would most likely have to go in person to those companies to get your electric and phone activated, but if they deny you service because you refuse to share your social security number, THEN they have violated the law.

As far as I know, one can voluntarily remove themselves from paying social security taxes, but they also remove themselves from the ability to ever utilize the ss program. Right?

Gina

 

[poncho]

Thank you Gina. I always carry my two or three forms of id around for just such times. They seem to happen alot with me. The courts in Luisiana (hope thats spelled close) have ruled that to deny your ID to a police officer is cause enough to arrest you. Never mind the fifth amendment, thats all conspiracy theory anyways.

Would removing yourself from the social security system be such a bad thing? I mean after all, I doubt there is any money left in it anyway. The global bankers done got most it by now. Thanks to our public servants.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by poncho:
Please show me the law that says you have to have a birth certificate.

There's no such law. However, the law allows businesses to require a positive identification, such as a state ID card. In my case, my BC is an out of country BC, so I use my Citizenship Certificate and driver's license as my two forms of ID. BTW, you can give them a taxpayer ID instead of a SS#.

 

[poncho]

Thank You Johnv,

Now if someone would just show me the law that says you have to file an income tax return. PLEASE.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by Gina L:
As far as I know, one can voluntarily remove themselves from paying social security taxes...

I don't believe that's correct.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by poncho:
Now if someone would just show me the law that says you have to file an income tax return.

I believe you only need to file a return if you've earned any income in a year. I didn't file my first tax return until I was 16.

BTW, I generally recommend people DO use a SS# or Taxpayer ID# for ID. It's been shown to reduce identity theft tremendously.

 

[poncho]

Section 862 in the IRS code defines the criteria for a tax payer. There is no mention of an American citizen working and earning an income solely within the United States.

 

[Johnv]

P - a person's citizenship status is a separate issue from whether or not someone is required to pay taxes.

 

[poncho]

Taxable Income

Do you owe any taxes?

 

[Johnv]

No, I don't owe any taxes. I pay mine faithfully. My taxes are typically about 15% of my taxable income. I pay my fair share (not a penny less, and not a penny more), and don't try to weasle my way out of paying taxes.

 

[poncho]

If your calling me a weasle Johnv, thats okay, I have been called much worse. So, how do you figure out what your taxable income is? By using section 861-865 of the IRS code. Or, do you just let the tax profesionals handle it for you? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Clergy are the only ones who can opt out of social security so far as I know. Poncho is right, that they are not required to ask for your SSN and it is not against the law to refuse to give it. However, they can refuse you service if you decide that your rights are more important than your phone service, etc.

Lousiana did recently rule that you cannot refuse to identify yourself to police. IT is a good ruling. There is no fifth amendment issue involved. Asking for identification is neither an invasion or privacy nor an unreasonable search and seizure. Let's get off all the conspiracy stuff.

All being told, not to beat a dead horse, but what in the world is the issue??? What difference does it make? Not much ... But don't give it if you don't want to ...