How the Fall Affected Jesus 2

[Darrell C]

@percho

Sorry, the other thread closed before I was able to respond, so doing so here.

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A. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

B. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

C. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Did B apply to A at the very moment A was completed.

No. B is a context dealing with glorification, and at no time was Adam glorified. If he had been, he would not have died.

Secondly, Adam was created flesh and blood, and thus could not, even in his original Pre-Fall state...enter the Kingdom of God.

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Would Christ even have been necessary had Adam not broken the law of not eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil?

Yes. To accomplish God's goal, which was always to immerse men into Himself and give them everlasting physical bodies free from the presence, pollution, and penalty of sin.

If Adam had not sinned we would not have the hope of glory that is set before us as we do now. We would still be existing on earth without the possibility of entering the presence of God. That is one of the primary effects of the Cross of Christ.

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Would righteousness not have just come by the law?

No. Adam had the equivalent of the Law in his day, which was the revealed will of God.

He violated it, showing that not even one created as powerful as he was and in pristine conditions...could keep from sinning.

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Would the obedience of the one man Adam have brought righteousness and life for the many and or all? See Romans 5:18,19

No.

Only God can bestow, not just a righteous standing before Him, but the life that none of us are born with, including Adam.


God bless.

 

[percho]

@percho

Sorry, the other thread closed before I was able to respond, so doing so here.




No. B is a context dealing with glorification, and at no time was Adam glorified. If he had been, he would not have died.

Secondly, Adam was created flesh and blood, and thus could not, even in his original Pre-Fall state...enter the Kingdom of God.




Yes. To accomplish God's goal, which was always to immerse men into Himself and give them everlasting physical bodies free from the presence, pollution, and penalty of sin.

If Adam had not sinned we would not have the hope of glory that is set before us as we do now. We would still be existing on earth without the possibility of entering the presence of God. That is one of the primary effects of the Cross of Christ.



No. Adam had the equivalent of the Law in his day, which was the revealed will of God.

He violated it, showing that not even one created as powerful as he was and in pristine conditions...could keep from sinning.




No.

Only God can bestow, not just a righteous standing before Him, but the life that none of us are born with, including Adam.


God bless.

Actually we agree except I would said , yes, B applies to A. Adam was created flesh and blood not fit for the kingdom of God.

There would have to be a change made to him different from his created condition.

 

[Darrell C]

Actually we agree except I would said , yes, B applies to A. Adam was created flesh and blood not fit for the kingdom of God.

Here is your list again:

Percho asked...

A. And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

B. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

C. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Did B apply to A at the very moment A was completed.


"B" refers to glorification, which has not yet taken place for anyone other than Christ. So maybe I am misunderstanding what you are trying to say but I don't see how B could have applied at man's original creation. If you mean in a perspective of God's foreknowledge, sure, but not in a practical sense.

There would have to be a change made to him different from his created condition.

We see in Genesis what changed: his relationship to and with God, and his access to the Garden. Being thrust out of the Garden he would no longer have communion with God, and would have to work for his food from then on out. As far as his nature, his human nature, that didn't really change, except for how it has been affected by the curse (shorter life spans, for example).


God bless.

 

[JamesL]

...Adam was created flesh and blood, and thus could not, even in his original Pre-Fall state...enter the Kingdom of God....

Scripture doesn't say anything like that

 

[Darrell C]

Scripture doesn't say anything like that

It does.

Unless you want to suggest that the Garden was the Kingdom of God, and I doubt seriously you want to do that, then you have to consider that Adam was not born again and could not enter the Kingdom of God. And I doubt you would attribute a state of reconciliation to Adam post-Fall. That's kind of the point of Christ coming, isn't it? To reconcile mankind unto Himself?

Do you deny Adam was created flesh and blood?


1 Corinthians 15:50
King James Version (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


John 3:3-5
King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Being born again became a possibility when Christ came:


John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


No man in his natural state, and that includes Adam, can enter the Kingdom of God.


God bless.

 

[JamesL]

It does.

Unless you want to suggest that the Garden was the Kingdom of God, and I doubt seriously you want to do that, then you have to consider that Adam was not born again and could not enter the Kingdom of God. And I doubt you would attribute a state of reconciliation to Adam post-Fall. That's kind of the point of Christ coming, isn't it? To reconcile mankind unto Himself?

Do you deny Adam was created flesh and blood?


1 Corinthians 15:50
King James Version (KJV)

50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


John 3:3-5
King James Version (KJV)

3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Being born again became a possibility when Christ came:


John 1:11-13
King James Version (KJV)

11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


No man in his natural state, and that includes Adam, can enter the Kingdom of God.


God bless.

Where does Scripture even come close to expounding on a "pre-fall state" of Adam ?

 

[Darrell C]

Where does Scripture even come close to expounding on a "pre-fall state" of Adam ?

Where does anything in my post come close to expounding a "pre-Fall" state of Adam?

Of course, if you are speaking of the physical, we can certainly see a pre-fall state opposed to a post-fall state. Man no longer had direct communion with God, and had to now offer up sacrifice for sin, which we see as early as Abel.


God bless.