Hyles "enlightenment"

If you would be so kind, what was so awful about your IFB church? I recently joined an IFB. Went from Southern Baptist to IFB.

Thanks!
Kathy
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Hello Kathy,

I came from the SBC to an IFB man was that a relief

I just want to mention that I know plenty of independent fundamental King James Only Baptist with a capital B, who were quick to condemn Hyles and his brand of abusive pastors & easy believism.

[ December 13, 2001: Message edited by: Larry ]

 

Hi Larry!

What exactly do you mean by abusive Pastors? How would you define easy believism?

I know I'm asking alot of questions here, but I sincerely want to know what the buzz is about.

I personally don't see anything wrong with women dressing in skirts and dresses only, men being the head of the household...etc. I would definitely have a problem with that IF it were a requirement to attend church.

My Pastor does mention dressing modestly, etc. (you know the drill), but by no means does he DEMAND it.

Thanks
Kathy
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Abusive Pastors, that would be when a pastor lords his scriptural authority, and non-scriptural authority over "his" church.

I'm all for preachers speaking out about mini skirts etc and I wish more preachers had the backbone to do so. An example of HAC brand of abusive pastors: the first one that comes to mind was a certain Pastor who publicly humiliated a deacon by telling him "stand up! Sit down! Stand up! Sit down! if I told this man to lick my boots, he should do it without question!" another example, I visited a church whose pastor attended the HAC Pastor School for something like twenty years, I didn’t know it when I went in but before the service had gone fifteen minus, I told my wife "I bet this guy is a HAC graduate". I knew that because he kept threatening the members "if you don’t show up for visitation, I'LL GET YOU!" As soon as the service was over we made a beeline to the door. This poor man ran and caught us just before we made our escape and said "man would I be in big trouble, if I let you get out before I gave you this, its my job "

Easy Believeism, when some "spiritual Con-men" leads his victim into saying a prayer, ask the lord in your heart, receive assurance that Heaven will be your home etc. and then declares "your saved! Never doubt it".

Salvation is of the Lord, it is not of the will of the flesh, no man can come unto the Son but the Father draw him, the disciples once asked the Lord "Who then can be saved?" the Lord said "the things which are impossible with men are possible with God"

also see www.wayoflife.org

 

I wholeheartedly agree with Larry, but also have to ask a question. When Larry and his wife stumbled into that church he immediately noticed something was amiss and left, presumably never to return. He had the good sense not to fall at the guys feet for the next 5 years! So, my question: how much responsibility does the person who attends such a church have to accept for his own "abuse?" Nobody chains you to the pew! They don't hold your children hostaage. So, why in the world would any person stay in such a situation? Instead of blaming the terrible pastor, the terrible church, or the terrible IFB movement, why not assign the blame right where it belongs, to the person who allows himself to be abused?

It seems to me that many Baptists today have fallen into the social fad of being a victum. "Oh, poor me, I am an abused person." Or, "Oh, poor me, I am an abuse surviver." Whatever happened to Victory in Christ?

I am not a victum! I am a victor!

 

"why in the world would any person stay in such a situation? Instead of blaming the terrible pastor, the terrible church, or the terrible IFB movement, why not assign the blame right where it belongs, to the person who allows himself to be abused?"


That’s a good point.

I can see an abusive pastor getting his bluff on a young Christian, but after you have had time to read the word of God and mature a little, there is no excuse for subjecting yourself or your family to that. Most men would fight before they let another man physically abuse a member of his family.

 

After thinking about it more, it's perfectly logical that an Easy Believeism church would also have an abusive pastor.

The church would soon fill up with false converts. False converts will do what comes natural unless there is a hard shell, crack the whip kind of Pastor to intimidate them into acting like Christians. False converts have a huge fall away rate so unless you keep your false converts busy making more false converts, the ministry would soon dry up and blow away. It’s a viscous circle.

 

Larry, good point! It may explain why such churches seem to prosper.

One of my spiritual mentors used to say, "If you are leading and nobody is following, you are not really leading, you are just taking a walk!"

It never ceases to amaze me that people blame others for leading them astray, but never seem to notice they willingly followed! If we look at it from the other perspective, can the "abusive" pastor legitimately blame his sycophantic followers for "enabling" him to continue his "abuse?" After all, if they had not followed, he would not have been leading, but simply taking a walk!

When was it that our entire culture abandoned the concept of personal responsibility and decided to become a culture of victums, blaming all their problems on someone else?

 

Dr. Cassidy, I agree with you to a point.
Why do people fellow a Jack Hyle or a someone to the far left? Because the one to the left wants to find a doctrine that is close to how he is living, most of the time and the one to fellow a Hyle type wants to get as far away from his life style as he can in most cases. They have in their mind what they think a christian is or what they think a christian should be.
In most cases on both sides they take what they think a christian should be and look to the leader, pastor aand go from there. As I said most of the people not all.
I came from a back ground that if we didn't agree, I said lets go outside and handle this, and I would try and take your head off. At the end of a good fight I didn't have to listen to someone run their mouth, wasn't a bad way to handle a problem. I didn't think a christian should take someones head off so I wanted something a little more gentle, also wanted a pastor that his actions of how he lived was as a christian, as in the bible, as they say your talk talks and your walk talks but you walk talks louder than you talk talks. Put your trust in Christ not man and you miss alot of troubles!
So many people want someone to give them the answer and tell them they OK, and great, other want someone to smash them.
Others like to read,study and pray for the Holy Spirit to lead them. They can pick out false doctrine and fasle teachers quicker than the others. Sooner or later most christians come to the point of prayer and study and they will find the answer.
When you have studied the bible and church history, you can pick out false doctrine, that are way out of bounds. Some doctrines are harder and some we will disagree on till Christ returns are we go home.

[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: Bob Alkire ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by free2know:
Are you saying we are responsible for this pastor's lies because we didn't know any better? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That is exactly what I am saying! It is the pastors job to preach Truth, and the congregations job to make sure he preaches Truth! Ignorance of the bible is no excuse! God has commanded every one of us to read, study, meditate, pray over, and practice His word! If you were ignorant of the bible, it was due to your own failure to obey God's plain command. Stop trying to blame others for your failure.

And it seems you still are not completely over your problem. You say <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>NOT ALL IFB's are like the one I went to.....I can only wonder what yours is like if you feel the need to tear apart hurting Christians.....peace brothers and may the TRUTH set you free from harsh judgment!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I am not tearing you apart, you did that to yourself! There is no question your wounds hurt, but remember, they were self inflicted! Many times self inflicted wounds hurt the worst of any!

You then make a slanderous insinuation regarding my church, then follow it up with a pious "set you free from harsh judgment." That is probably the second most hypocritical statement I have seen you make. The first being your tendency to blame everyone else for your failure to discern bad doctrine.

[ December 14, 2001: Message edited by: Thomas Cassidy ]

 

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by free2know:
I don't mind debating and discussing but leave your personal attacks at the door please, I try to abide by rule one and two, why don't you try it, instead of questioning my intelligence and salvation......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Nobody has questioned either your intelligence or your salvation. What I have questioned is your self-honesty.