1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Hyms

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Eyes on Jesus, May 10, 2003.

Top Posters
  1. Eyes on Jesus

    Eyes on Jesus Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2003
    Messages:
    43
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have heard before by someone that some of the hyms in the hym books came from old bar songs, could anyone tell me if this is true, and which songs they would be?
     
    #1 Eyes on Jesus, May 10, 2003
  2. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,401
    Likes Received:
    555
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Some hymn tunes came from folk melodies. These were commonly known to the people.

    PERHAPS some of these tunes were used in bars. Who can say? But many of these tunes had good christian words put to them and, since everyone already knew the tune, they were added to church music.

    Sing with me "We gather together to ask the Lord's blessing. He chastens and hastens His will to make known". Okay, this was a common Dutch folk tune. It also had words to the tune that were bawdy. "I once met a girl and her name was Matilda, she hugged like a bear and she looked like one too".

    Now, I've heard stories of bar songs that were 100% drinking songs being brought (with new words, of course) into a church. But I've never had that proven. Old wives' tale, methinks. Probably because of the common use of folk tunes in all settings, including perhaps a tavern.
     
    #2 Dr. Bob, May 10, 2003
  3. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Messages:
    693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does this mean we can sing the words of Amazing Grace to the tune of Rock-n-Roll Hoochie-Coo? [​IMG] :rolleyes:
     
    #3 Istherenotacause, May 10, 2003
  4. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2001
    Messages:
    11,864
    Likes Received:
    1,098
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Like Dr. Bob, you and Dr. Bob, I've heard this too, but without any evidence.

    I ran across these articles, on a United Methodist Church site, which categorically denies that the Wesleys (and Luther) adapted drinking songs for hymns:

    Debunking the Wesley Tavern Song Myth

    Did the Wesleys Really Use Drinking Song Tunes for Their Hymns?

    While it is impossible to rule out the appearance of an adapted drinking song tune in any of the many hymnals now around, I think it would be rare.

    On the other hand, if you're talking about "The Star Spangled Banner" ...
     
    #4 rsr, May 10, 2003
  5. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,760
    Likes Received:
    1,337
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That reminds me of a time in my youth. We had a Youth Group contest to see who could come up with a new tune to "Amazing Grace".

    The "winner" used the tune to "Take me out to the Ball Game". [​IMG]

    Rob
     
    #5 Deacon, May 10, 2003
  6. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Messages:
    693
    Likes Received:
    0
    I've heard many a drunk sing Amazing Grace, but I sort of brushed it off. I know that's a crude example, but many songs we have in our hymnals could very well have been sung in many a bar room.
     
    #6 Istherenotacause, May 10, 2003
  7. Artimaeus

    Artimaeus Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2002
    Messages:
    3,133
    Likes Received:
    0
    I like Amazing Grace sung to the tune of "Ghost Riders in the Sky". That is the only song I can sort of play on the guitar (at least I used to be able to). I had heard that some hymns were tunes from common songs and were "brought over" to hymns with Christian words. I also assume that some of these songs were also sung in taverns but I had not heard that they were specifically JUST bar songs.
     
    #7 Artimaeus, May 10, 2003
  8. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have heard contemporary Christian groups sing "Celebrate" by Kool and the Gang with Christian words ("Holy Ghost Party Tonight!")

    I have also heard someone derisively sing: "Our hope is built on nothing less than Scofield's Notes and Scripture Press..."

    However, the great hymns that last hundreds or thousands of years (sometimes with different music) come from a combination of:

    (1) Good Theology (as Spurgeon pointed out often, the theology of Charles Wesley's hymns was far better than the theology of Wesley sermons)

    (2) Depth of Christian experience, revealing a heart for God in a life full of pain--if you have read John Newton's life, "wretch like me" takes on a whole new meaning; if you know the tragic circumstances of William Cowper's life, "There is A Fountain Filled With Blood" really resonates.

    (3) A time of revival--there is nothing like the Holy Spirit MANIFESTING His Presence (which is always there anyway, see Omnipresence) to make believers sing a new song.
     
    #8 Major B, May 10, 2003
  9. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Messages:
    9,405
    Likes Received:
    353
    Faith:
    Baptist
    When alone, I sometimes sing Amazing Grace to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun." And then I sometimes change the words from HRS to something variable, then end the stanza with "..the house of the Risen Son."

    But I honestly don't know if have heard that before, or whether it just "came to me," since I don't really listen to much music of any kind. Has anyone heard a recording like that? (just so I might know)
     
    #9 Alcott, May 10, 2003
  10. Major B

    Major B <img src=/6069.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 6, 2003
    Messages:
    2,294
    Likes Received:
    0
    Singing "Amazing Grace" to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun" was SOP (Standard Operating Procedure for all you civilians) during the Jesus movement days, and when I first got saved in the mid-70s, it was still heard fairly often.
     
    #10 Major B, May 10, 2003
  11. Ben W

    Ben W Active Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,883
    Likes Received:
    6
    The Salvation Army used to use tunes from pub songs all the time. A popular one which I cant recall what it is called now comes from the pub song "Champagne Charlie"
     
    #11 Ben W, May 10, 2003
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    30,401
    Likes Received:
    555
    Faith:
    Baptist
    That just made my night! Thanks for a good chuckle. We should add that to the Humor Forum!
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
    #12 Dr. Bob, May 11, 2003
  13. Istherenotacause

    Istherenotacause New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2003
    Messages:
    693
    Likes Received:
    0
    Major B, you post like a man who's "Saved, Serving, and Sure!"

    I was only kidding when I made the post regarding Amazing Grace to the tune of anything to do with r-n-r.

    The Lord is everpresent/ Omnipresent, but He sure lets us know He's around at the "right" time!
     
    #13 Istherenotacause, May 11, 2003
  14. Pete

    Pete New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2002
    Messages:
    4,345
    Likes Received:
    0
    Re: Amazing Grace to tune of House of the Rising Sun..

    Mum always tells me the story of when one of my brothers was a teenager and sang Watts' Alas And Did My Saviour Bleed to that tune for a homeless mens' group. She said the men were enjoying it, until someone came along and told my brother "YOU CANT DO THAT!"

    Going back about 6 or 7 years ago I heard Amazing Grace done that way at a Church I was going to at the time. It was done flat out with full band and sounded terrible. I sat down but really should have walked out. Sadly they did the first verse a capella to the real tune after that and I went back a few more times.

    2 years or so ago I did Alas And Did.. with my brother at another Church, just him and myself singing it with me picking softly on acoustic guitar. Not up to standard of the real thing, but still went down ok there [​IMG]

    (Had to edit, got a song or 2 mixed up [​IMG] )

    Pete

    [ May 14, 2003, 02:06 AM: Message edited by: Battlestar Acrostica ]
     
    #14 Pete, May 14, 2003
  15. Daisy

    Daisy New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2003
    Messages:
    7,751
    Likes Received:
    0
    I always assumed it was the other way around, that the bar songs were parodies of the hymns.
     
    #15 Daisy, May 14, 2003
  16. Wisdom Seeker

    Wisdom Seeker New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2002
    Messages:
    5,702
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's what I thought too Daisy.

    Laurenda
     
    #16 Wisdom Seeker, May 19, 2003
  17. Sherrie

    Sherrie New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2002
    Messages:
    10,274
    Likes Received:
    0
    Eyes on Jesus....I heard that too. And one time I searched on the internet, and found what rsr put up, and a bunch of opposite ones. I think it just depends on who you talk to.

    Sherrie
     
    #17 Sherrie, May 19, 2003
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Loading...