Hyperbole used by God?

[agedman]

This thread seeks to address the problem of exaggeration (hyperbole) as it relates to the Word of God, and more specific the basic question of hyperbole being used by God.



Some believers consider such passages as,

Isaiah 10:

20In that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no more lean on him who struck them, but will lean on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. 21A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God. 22For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness. 23For the Lord God of hosts will make a full end, as decreed, in the midst of all the earth.

24Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “O my people, who dwell in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrians when they strike with the rod and lift up their staff against you as the Egyptians did. 25For in a very little while my fury will come to an end, and my anger will be directed to their destruction. 26And the Lord of hosts will wield against them a whip, as when he struck Midian at the rock of Oreb. And his staff will be over the sea, and he will lift it as he did in Egypt. 27And in that day his burden will depart from your shoulder, and his yoke from your neck; and the yoke will be broken because of the fat.”​

examples of the use by God of hyperbole (exaggeration) found in the Scriptures.

I do not (of course) agree that the Scriptures ever present God using terms of exaggeration. Such may certainly be used by humankind, but never by God. As in this above passage, God is not saying Israel will number but saying that even if they were to achieve such a number in that far off land, He would only bring back a few. So, there is no hyperbole being used.

The principle is that if God exaggerates, then God cannot be trusted in presenting the truth. For exaggeration is not unaligned with a lie, and "God cannot lie."

What Scriptures might you consider would support God using exaggeration?

What ideas might you have concerning supporting the thinking that God use exaggeration or some form of hyperbole (overstatement, embellishment, …)

 

[Jerome]

Reminds me of a howler I heard in the expository preaching of a Baptist pastor (whom I later learned was 'Reformed'):

Regarding Genesis 15:5

And He brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and He said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

It was explained to us that the seed referred to in this verse was Jesus Christ, since this happened during the day when Abram would have seen just one star in the sky, the Sun!

 

[Van]

There are plenty of examples where overstatement is used to make a point, more versus less commitment expressed as love versus hate. Or take the log out of your eye. A lie of commission or omission involves the intent to deceive. God uses overstatement to make clear and memorable His message of truth.

 

[agedman]

Reminds me of a howler I heard in the expository preaching of a Baptist pastor (whom I later learned was 'Reformed'):

Regarding Genesis 15:5


It was explained to us that the seed referred to in this verse was Jesus Christ, since this happened during the day when Abram would have seen just one star in the sky, the Sun!

Interesting thought, regarding Genesis 15.

I hadn't considered that the vision might have occurred during the day, and the vision of promise concerning the land that night.

I'm going to have to think on this.

At this time, I don't accept that Abraham didn't see the stars, and I don't see an actual time of day/night God spoke, I wonder if the first statement given to Abraham was prior to twilight and the promise of land (vision) was that next night.

Abraham would be old enough to have what is called "sundowners" and perhaps his days and night sleep cycles had switched.

This is not to disparage Abraham, but to place a condition in which some elderly contend.

 

[Jerome]

This preacher said that it had to be during daylight as verse 12 mentions the sun setting later on!

 

[agedman]

There are plenty of examples where overstatement is used to make a point, more versus less commitment expressed as love versus hate. Or take the log out of your eye. A lie of commission or omission involves the intent to deceive. God uses overstatement to make clear and memorable His message of truth.

I assume you take those statements as hyperbole. That presents an obvious problem to the validity of the Word.

If one takes the view that overstatement, exaggeration,... are actually used by God, then what prevents God from being proclaimed a liar or taking any passage as overstated, exaggerated?

The premise I work from is that, 1) because God cannot lie, and by extension, Christ could not lie, and 2) because hyperbole is in fact "stretching the truth" (a lie), then it remains that neither God the Father, nor the Son would ever nor could they use hyperbole. Therefore, there was no hyperbole used.

A lie is sin irregardless of omission or commission, irregardless of the "intent to deceive." It is the deception, intent or not.

 

[agedman]

This preacher said that it had to be during daylight as verse 12 mentions the sun setting later on!

This is true, and would Abram gather the animals at night and see the birds of prey come down, that is assumed during the daylight.

Gathering the animals would take time, perhaps all morning, so, again, prior to twilight may be when God spoke.

This is something I will need to ponder some more about.

There are some places in Scriptures I wish more information was given. Perhaps the Lord will give me (as He gave Daniel) the answer in a vision.

 

[Van]

As post #3 explained, there is no problem with biblical validity or trustworthiness.

Nothing prevents the godless from misrepresenting the bible, or, for that matter, agenda driven believers.

Your home cooked definition, "exaggeration is a lie," is itself a falsehood.

Here is a dictionary definition, "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive."

Please take the log out of your own eye...

 

[John of Japan]

This thread seeks to address the problem of exaggeration (hyperbole) as it relates to the Word of God, and more specific the basic question of hyperbole being used by God.

Forgive me, but you are not defining hyperbole correctly. It is not simply "exaggeration" or "overstatement" or "embellishment" (something different from exaggeration, actually). per se, since exaggeration is usually to make one's self look good. It is a figure of speech, defined thusly: "In rhetoric, a figure of speech representing an obvious exaggeration" (Mario Pei and Frank Gaynor, Dictionary of Linguistics, p. 94).

What distinguishes hyperbole from simple exaggeration? Hyperbole is "obvious," as this definition says. People who hear hyperbole know instantly that it is not lying, not simple exaggeration, but said to produce an effect, like when my Mom said, "If I've told you once I've told you a 1000 times...."

Some believers consider such passages as,

Isaiah 10:

20In that day the remnant of Israel and the survivors of the house of Jacob will no more lean on him who struck them, but will lean on the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth. 21A remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, to the mighty God. 22For though your people Israel be as the sand of the sea, only a remnant of them will return. Destruction is decreed, overflowing with righteousness. 23For the Lord God of hosts will make a full end, as decreed, in the midst of all the earth.

24Therefore thus says the Lord God of hosts: “O my people, who dwell in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrians when they strike with the rod and lift up their staff against you as the Egyptians did. 25For in a very little while my fury will come to an end, and my anger will be directed to their destruction. 26And the Lord of hosts will wield against them a whip, as when he struck Midian at the rock of Oreb. And his staff will be over the sea, and he will lift it as he did in Egypt. 27And in that day his burden will depart from your shoulder, and his yoke from your neck; and the yoke will be broken because of the fat.”​

examples of the use by God of hyperbole (exaggeration) found in the Scriptures.

This is clear hyperbole, and no one in Israel would take it as a lie.

I do not (of course) agree that the Scriptures ever present God using terms of exaggeration. Such may certainly be used by humankind, but never by God. As in this above passage, God is not saying Israel will number but saying that even if they were to achieve such a number in that far off land, He would only bring back a few. So, there is no hyperbole being used.

Again, you are mixing up simple "exaggeration" with hyperbole, a figure of speech. God never lies, but He does use hyperbole. Hyperbole is not a lie, but is easily understood as having a purpose in the discourse.

The principle is that if God exaggerates, then God cannot be trusted in presenting the truth. For exaggeration is not unaligned with a lie, and "God cannot lie."

What Scriptures might you consider would support God using exaggeration?

God doesn't lie, but He does use hyperbole--which again is not simple exaggeration.

What ideas might you have concerning supporting the thinking that God use exaggeration or some form of hyperbole (overstatement, embellishment, …)

Here is a passage that could not possibly be literal but falls clearly in the are of hyperbole:

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen" (John 21:25).

It is impossible to say this is literal, and it is certainly not simple exaggeration. It is hyperbole, plain and simple, written by John and inspired by God to make a point.

 

[agedman]

Forgive me, but you are not defining hyperbole correctly. It is not simply "exaggeration" or "overstatement" or "embellishment" (something different from exaggeration, actually). per se, since exaggeration is usually to make one's self look good. It is a figure of speech, defined thusly: "In rhetoric, a figure of speech representing an obvious exaggeration" (Mario Pei and Frank Gaynor, Dictionary of Linguistics, p. 94).

What distinguishes hyperbole from simple exaggeration? Hyperbole is "obvious," as this definition says. People who hear hyperbole know instantly that it is not lying, not simple exaggeration, but said to produce an effect, like when my Mom said, "If I've told you once I've told you a 1000 times...."


This is clear hyperbole, and no one in Israel would take it as a lie.

Again, you are mixing up simple "exaggeration" with hyperbole, a figure of speech. God never lies, but He does use hyperbole. Hyperbole is not a lie, but is easily understood as having a purpose in the discourse.


God doesn't lie, but He does use hyperbole--which again is not simple exaggeration.


Here is a passage that could not possibly be literal but falls clearly in the are of hyperbole:

"And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen" (John 21:25).

It is impossible to say this is literal, and it is certainly not simple exaggeration. It is hyperbole, plain and simple, written by John and inspired by God to make a point.

Ok, such distinction is good to lay out as a way to guide. However, I really don’t desire to get into banging definition against definition.

My view remains that hyperbole ( as I demonstrated and aligned specifically with such as exaggeration, overstating, ...) is not found as a statement by God. Btw, I took my definition from the web here: https://www.google.com/search?q=hyperbole&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari

As such, it is not conformed to include “obvious” awareness of the untruthfulness.

You gave the reference of John 21.

This a was a statement by John “supposing” but not stating such as factual. It was not a statement by God.

Do you see it problematic that I hold to God, nor words from God ever using hyperbole in terms of exaggeration, overstatement, outlandishness, ....)?

If so, then are you then not obliged to adopt a human evaluation method of which to consider such statements, and that in turn may certainly seem to lead to perhaps others of differing evaluation calling into question what can be taken as factual and what is to be taken as overstatement and therefore questionable in the matter of reliable.

By holding no such evaluation as necessary, because God does not use any such expression, then human mental gymnastics is useless .

 

[Jerome]

this happened during the day when Abram would have seen just one star in the sky, the Sun!

I think this contrivance was an attempt to conform it to Galatians 3:16 ("Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.")

 

[agedman]

As post #3 explained, there is no problem with biblical validity or trustworthiness.

Nothing prevents the godless from misrepresenting the bible, or, for that matter, agenda driven believers.

Your home cooked definition, "exaggeration is a lie," is itself a falsehood.

Here is a dictionary definition, "to make an untrue statement with intent to deceive."

Please take the log out of your own eye...

I suppose I should ignore you, but the Scriptures state ignorance displayed in such a way as to hurt others needs answered.

1) I used no “home cooked” definition. That assertion is a falsehood.

2) I have no intention of bantering what is or is not a dictionary definition. I gave what definition I used. You don’t like it, not my problem, nor does your definition pertain to the thread as defined.

3) Your post, whether you “meant” to or not presents my writing as from one “godless” and that I am “misrepresenting the bible, or, for that matter, agenda driven believers.”

Would you kindly edit that post for two reasons:
1) such accusation is not allowed on the BB
2) you have no authority other than self driven agenda to make such a claim.

I’ll not compare eyesight.

A lie is a lie, irregardless of intent. That you don’t “see” such as a standard does not oblige God, nor God’s words to conform to a lesser standard.

God does not lie. He has no intent nor lack when it come to the word lie. He may certainly use the lies of others, but He does not lie.

 

[agedman]

I think this contrivance was an attempt to conform it to Galatians 3:16 ("Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.")

Possibly.

I suppose a human desire to be puffed up and looked upon as knowledgeable could compel such a contrivance.

But, it did cause me to ponder.

Then I wonder if Paul in the second letter to Tim would consider such contrivances as not following “sound words” because the time line isn’t strictly given and conjecture is not “sound words.”

 

[Van]

I suppose I should ignore you, but the Scriptures state ignorance displayed in such a way as to hurt others needs answered.

1) I used no “home cooked” definition. That assertion is a falsehood.

2) I have no intention of bantering what is or is not a dictionary definition. I gave what definition I used. You don’t like it, not my problem, nor does your definition pertain to the thread as defined.

3) Your post, whether you “meant” to or not presents my writing as from one “godless” and that I am “misrepresenting the bible, or, for that matter, agenda driven believers.”

Would you kindly edit that post for two reasons:
1) such accusation is not allowed on the BB
2) you have no authority other than self driven agenda to make such a claim.

I’ll not compare eyesight.

A lie is a lie, irregardless of intent. That you don’t “see” such as a standard does not oblige God, nor God’s words to conform to a lesser standard.

God does not lie. He has no intent nor lack when it come to the word lie. He may certainly use the lies of others, but He does not lie.

1) Please provide a link to a published definition that says exaggeration is a lie.
Otherwise, it is a home cooked definition.

2) I see no need to edit my post, as I did not say nor imply you were godless, or that you were intentionally (agenda driven) misrepresenting the bible.

Here is what I actually said:

Nothing prevents the godless from misrepresenting the bible, or, for that matter, agenda driven believers.

As JOJ and I have both pointed out, your view is without merit.

Bottom line, hyperbole is used by the inspired writers of scripture. And such usage is not a lie.

 

[John of Japan]

Ok, such distinction is good to lay out as a way to guide. However, I really don’t desire to get into banging definition against definition.

My view remains that hyperbole ( as I demonstrated and aligned specifically with such as exaggeration, overstating, ...) is not found as a statement by God. Btw, I took my definition from the web here: hyperbole - Google Search

As such, it is not conformed to include “obvious” awareness of the untruthfulness.

Please look again. The definition you reference says, "Not meant to be taken literally." Therefore, to rephrase your statement, hyperbole is conformed not to be taken literally, and therefore the listener knows that it is not a lie. A lie is a false statement intended to deceive and therefore intended to be taken literally. Hyperbole is not intended to deceive and is not intended to be taken literally.

You gave the reference of John 21.

This a was a statement by John “supposing” but not stating such as factual. It was not a statement by God.

I beg your pardon? Do you not believe that John 21 was verbally inspired by God and is therefore God's Word? I thought better of you.

Do you see it problematic that I hold to God, nor words from God ever using hyperbole in terms of exaggeration, overstatement, outlandishness, ....)?

I see it as problematic that you do not understand what hyperbole is.

If so, then you must adopt a human evaluation method to consider such statements, and that in turn may certainly seem to lead to perhaps others of differing evaluation calling into question what can be taken as factual and what is to be taken as overstatement and therefore questionable in the matter of reliable.

My evaluation method is to know that God invented language. He knows exactly what language accomplishes and what is true and what is not. He also uses non-literal statements called figures of speech, including hyperbole.

Do you deny all figures of speech in the Bible? You know, there are no figures of speech in the Bible meant to be taken literally: metaphors, similes, idioms, hyperbole, are all figures of speech, and none are meant to be taken literally. Is Jesus Christ literally a Lamb (metaphor)? Was Peter literally a rock? Does God, who is a Spirit, have literal hands (anthropomorphism)? Was Saul on the road to Damascus literally an ox pushing against goads (idiom)?

By hold no such evaluation is necessary because God does not use any such expression, then human mental gymnastics is useless .

I don't understand what you mean by this statement.

P.S. The failure to recognize figures of speech is often a Catholic one. Remember that Catholics believe the literal body and blood of Jesus to be in the Eucharist, even though that statement is so obviously figurative. (Of course, aged man is not Catholic.) I remember "Father Chiniquy," who quit being a Catholic when he realized the folly of that belief after he dropped the Eucharist into a privy, and hollered, "I have dropped God into the privy!" (Cf. his book, 50 Years in the Church of Rome).

 

[agedman]

Please look again. The definition you reference says, "Not meant to be taken literally." Therefore, to rephrase your statement, hyperbole is conformed not to be taken literally, and therefore the listener knows that it is not a lie. A lie is a false statement intended to deceive and therefore intended to be taken literally. Hyperbole is not intended to deceive and is not intended to be taken literally.

Then using your work, would you then admit that the "listener" is the determination of truth, and not the speaker?

Does it not then follow that the listener's determination may call into question the validity of the Scripture.

More to the point, is there actually a statement recorded in the Scripture that God uses such?

This is the question of the thread.

I beg your pardon? Do you not believe that John 21 was verbally inspired by God and is therefore God's Word? I thought better of you.

And well I would hope you should think and never would I desire to give you even pause to consider less.

This thread seeks to discern whether God (or by extension the Son) ever used exaggeration, overstatement, ... Others of course do.
For example, when the high priest stated that the "whole world" was following the Lord, John faithfully recorded the outlandishness. It is agreed that John's statement of the whole world is reflective of that same exuberance, or was John actually being truthfully honest in his supposing.

Do not be alarmed that there is difference and even deference shown to the Scriptures that actually quote the statements of God and those recorded by inspired humans. Would you not agree that the actual words quoted are more important than the "Thus saith the Lord" that preceded what the Lord said?
"Every Word is good for..." yet every word is not esteemed with the same height of being direct quotes from God.

Paul demonstrated this difference between the actual words of God and human sharing particularly in Corinthian letters:
1 Corinthians 7:

12To the rest I say (I, not the Lord) that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he should not divorce her.​

and again in:

25Now concerning the betrothed, I have no command from the Lord, but I give my judgment as one who by the Lord’s mercy is trustworthy.​

and again in
2 Corinthians 11:

17What I am saying with this boastful confidence, I say not as the Lord would but as a fool. 18Since many boast according to the flesh, I too will boast.
​

It is the intent of this thread to consider only the direct quotes of God (and by extension the Son) and not those of other writers. However!

In my own study, I don't find John (other than by directly quoting the high priest) ever using any outlandish statement, any exaggeration, any form of hyperbole in which the reader can not ultimately find factual. The "son of thunder" wrote (said) what he meant, and meant what he wrote. even when the effects of being old can be seen in the last two letters. Not a single line is not purposed. But again, that is my own view.

I see it as problematic that you do not understand what hyperbole is.

Well, perhaps, but then by inserting "human evaluation" such as "obvious" that becomes a problem to me. Because what is often obvious to one is not to another. The writer of Amelia Bedelia books would have a failed market.

But, working even within your own definitional standard, I am not finding anything that God stated could be taken less than factual.

For example: The phrase "sand of the sea" is used in multiple places in the Scriptures. But in each there is not hyperbole used, but terms such as to compare, not to exaggerate, overstate, be outlandish, nor even to make the statement obviously hyperbole in some other synonym.

My evaluation method is to know that God invented language. He knows exactly what language accomplishes and what is true and what is not. He also uses non-literal statements called figures of speech, including hyperbole.

Where?

Is there actually a direct quote from God that can be shown using hyperbole?

That is what is sought by this thread is it not? In the OP, I have taken the view (for the purpose of the thread) that such does not occur and given an example from Isaiah of how some misread and therefore assume what is not.

So, the thread continues to seek.

Do you deny all figures of speech in the Bible? You know, there are no figures of speech in the Bible meant to be taken literally: metaphors, similes, idioms, hyperbole, are all figures of speech, and none are meant to be taken literally. Is Jesus Christ literally a Lamb (metaphor)? Was Peter literally a rock? Does God, who is a Spirit, have literal hands (anthropomorphism)? Was Saul on the road to Damascus literally an ox pushing against goads (idiom)?

Ok, let me give a short answer. No. Yes. No. No (hard headed as he was). No. No.
But, consideration of all figures of speech is not a matter for this thread; besides, did any of your list above include God expressing Himself in any fashion in hyperbole?

I suppose a thread might be generated on when a figure of speech should be taken literally - oh what was that thread from some time ago that did that? Sure was interesting! Seems it was started by some linguistic prof up in some Yankee country where they think snow is a winter sport?

Is there ever in the Scripture God being "outlandish, using overstatement, exaggeration," or any other synonym of hyperbole?

That is the question of this thread.

For the purpose of the thread, I have taken the principled stand that exaggeration is a lie. God cannot lie, and therefore, God cannot use exaggeration. Because a synonym of hyperbole or one use of hyperbole is exaggeration, God does not use hyperbole.

Is that view correct. If not, is there Scripture proof?

 

[John of Japan]

Then using your work, would you then admit that the "listener" is the determination of truth, and not the speaker?

Does it not then follow that the listener's determination may call into question the validity of the Scripture.

Absolutely not. Where in the world do you get that from anything I've said?

More to the point, is there actually a statement recorded in the Scripture that God uses such?

This is the question of the thread.

I've given you one from John 21:25, unless you think it is not verbally inspired. I believe in verbal-plenary inspiration. John wrote that verse, and God wrote that verse--both.

In my own study, I don't find John (other than by directly quoting the high priest) ever using any outlandish statement, any exaggeration, any form of hyperbole in which the reader can not ultimately find factual. The "son of thunder" wrote (said) what he meant, and meant what he wrote. even when the effects of being old can be seen in the last two letters. Not a single line is not purposed. But again, that is my own view.

Are you denying that John 21:25 is the Word of God? I don't think you do, but you haven't answered me yet on that.

Well, perhaps, but then by inserting "human evaluation" such as "obvious" that becomes a problem to me. Because what is often obvious to one is not to another. The writer of Amelia Bedelia books would have a failed market.

But, working even within your own definitional standard, I am not finding anything that God stated could be taken less than factual.

Again, deal with John 21:26.

For example: The phrase "sand of the sea" is used in multiple places in the Scriptures. But in each there is not hyperbole used, but terms such as to compare, not to exaggerate, overstate, be outlandish, nor even to make the statement obviously hyperbole in some other synonym.

Again, you are not following the accepted definition that I gave of hyperbole from a linguistic dictionary, or your own quote of a definition of hyperbole.

Where?

Is there actually a direct quote from God that can be shown using hyperbole?

Why do you say "a direct quote"? When John wrote his Gospel, the entire book was directly from God, unless one does not believe in verbal inspiration. French theologian Louis Gaussen, followed by American theologian John R. Rice actually used the word "dictated" for how God gave the word.

That is what is sought by this thread is it not? In the OP, I have taken the view (for the purpose of the thread) that such does not occur and given an example from Isaiah of how some misread and therefore assume what is not.

So, the thread continues to seek.

There is a false dichotomy here. Simply because the Bible sometimes records direct statement from God does not mean that the whole Bible is not inspired by God. I believe every word of the Bible in the original languages is inspired by God.

If you say God never uses hyperbole, but the Bible does, then you are denying inspiration, and I don't think you want to do that.

I suppose a thread might be generated on when a figure of speech should be taken literally - oh what was that thread from some time ago that did that? Sure was interesting! Seems it was started by some linguistic prof up in some Yankee country where they think snow is a winter sport?

Fun, wasn't it?

Is there ever in the Scripture God being "outlandish, using overstatement, exaggeration," or any other synonym of hyperbole?

Yes, John 21:26.

That is the question of this thread.

For the purpose of the thread, I have taken the principled stand that exaggeration is a lie. God cannot lie, and therefore, God cannot use exaggeration. Because a synonym of hyperbole or one use of hyperbole is exaggeration, God does not use hyperbole.

Is that view correct. If not, is there Scripture proof?

Is the whole Bible verbally inspired? And inerrant? And are there statements of hyperbole in the Bible not directly a quote of some kind from God, but yet still verbally inspired?

 

[agedman]

Absolutely not. Where in the world do you get that from anything I've said?

You stated:

Please look again. The definition you reference says, "Not meant to be taken literally." Therefore, to rephrase your statement, hyperbole is conformed not to be taken literally, and therefore the listener knows that it is not a lie. A lie is a false statement intended to deceive and therefore intended to be taken literally. Hyperbole is not intended to deceive and is not intended to be taken literally."​

Now, what I may have confused you is by sharing that not ALL listeners will take (upon listening) what is delivered as hyperbole as not delivered as fact.

Hyperbole delivered must be received as hyperbole for it to be considered hyperbole. Such is difficult in the written languages for the body language is missing.

I've given you one from John 21:25, unless you think it is not verbally inspired. I believe in verbal-plenary inspiration. John wrote that verse, and God wrote that verse--both.
Are you denying that John 21:25 is the Word of God? I don't think you do, but you haven't answered me yet on that.
Again, deal with John 21:26.

At any point have I even eluded to John 21:25 not being inspired? Yet, let me ask you. Which has more esteem, The Lord's statements, or those by Pilot? Both are "inspired" and both are given by God to be included in the Scriptures. No doubt. But do you put the same trust upon the statements of Pilot as you do the statements of the Christ? I'm not talking about if the recorded statements are accurate, nor are they based upon facts, I am asking about the level of esteem given. "What is truth" (a declaration by Pilot) does not carry the esteem nor authority of fact in comparison to "I am the way, the truth, the life." that the Lord Jesus declares.

This is off the thread topic, but needs to be addressed. For I in no manner deny the Scriptures as and are the Word of God.

For the readers who do not know what verbal-plenary inspiration means, John and I both would agree. God exercised such authority that the writers of Scriptures penned the exact words He desired. Not only that, but God has also preserved the written Scriptures both on this earth and in heaven. This is important, for there are those who would not hold this valuable truth, and bring question to the authority of the Word.

Now, it is accepted that the purpose, the culture, the motivation, the intent... all mark each book as God communicated exactly what He wanted written. That is the book of Matthew is not written in the same manner as the book of John, for the intended audience was slightly different. John wrote in the terms of a gentile, with the timing and other indicators of the view of the gentile. As such, his record(s) is and can be viewed as precisely specific where Matthew in comparison must usually be viewed from the lenses of the Jews (his targeted audience).

Enough of that. Back to responding to John.

Again, you are not following the accepted definition that I gave of hyperbole from a linguistic dictionary, or your own quote of a definition of hyperbole.

Ok, then using your own definition, in the Scriptures can you show a direct quote of God in which God uses any of the synonyms of hyperbole?

Why do you say "a direct quote"? When John wrote his Gospel, the entire book was directly from God, unless one does not believe in verbal inspiration. French theologian Louis Gaussen, followed by American theologian John R. Rice actually used the word "dictated" for how God gave the word.

Dictated is fine. I used to use a Dictaphone, amazing how much editing was needed before the final printing.

There is a false dichotomy here. Simply because the Bible sometimes records direct statement from God does not mean that the whole Bible is not inspired by God. I believe every word of the Bible in the original languages is inspired by God.

agreed

If you say God never uses hyperbole, but the Bible does, then you are denying inspiration, and I don't think you want to do that.

Fun, wasn't it?

Yes, John 21:26.

Is the whole Bible verbally inspired? And inerrant? And are there statements of hyperbole in the Bible not directly a quote of some kind from God, but yet still verbally inspired?

Ok, John.
You are attempting to place a certain blanket excuse that because God verbally inspired, then God must have certainly approved and agreed.

If anything, the God of the Bible desired accuracy and validity. That is ultimately what inspiration and verbal plenary inspiration is all about is it not?

Having agreed, then would you also agree that there are statements in the Scriptures made by humans in which God disapproved yet He, by His own authority, placed them in the Scriptures perhaps as warnings of foolishness to others.

For example, does the bible record a persons lie, murder, adultery, pride, ... Yet, God does not approve of such?

The words and actions (evil) are included in the verbal-plenary inspiration, but they are not God's words God's actions. They are included because God uses such action and words of others for instruction.

Now, this thread is concerning the statements of God made by God. Not by others. Not by John, Peter, Herod, Pilot, Abraham, Adam, ...

Did God in His own direct declarations to humankind ever use hyperbole more pointedly exaggeration (a form of hyperbole)?

Nothing has been shown so far to indicate that He did. But, I may certainly be wrong.

 

[Aaron]

If God uses metaphor, then He uses hyperbole.

 

[agedman]

If God uses metaphor, then He uses hyperbole.

Huh?????

They are not synonymous.