I Have a Question About Hell and Eternity

[RedemptionAddiction]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]I was wondering if you guys might have an answer to an issue I’ve just recently found. It has to do with the word "eternal" used in the Bible. I know that in the Greek (in the NT) it’s "ion", or "ionos" which can mean either forever, or a span of time. I guess my question is, if this word can mean both forever and also a period of time, how can I believe with absolute certainty that hell is forever? Because I sure don’t want to go around telling people they’re going to be in hell forever if they don’t accept Christ, if I don’t have absolute, solid scripture that backs it up. If I can get an answer to this, I’d really appreciate it. I understand how serious an issue it is, so I want to know for sure that what I believe about it can clearly be shown from God’s Word.[/FONT]

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Luke 16...

The rich man was in hell, not being consumed by the fire,but tormented.

Jesus said in Mark 9 that hell is a place where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched.

In Revelation 21, we see death and hell being thrown into the lake of fire prior to those who did not accept Christ and His atoning blood.

1 Corinthians 15 tells us that the last enemy to be destroyed is death.

So, since death is cast into the lake of fire before those who reject Christ, those cast in afterward cannot die. Thus living in the lake of fire and brimstone forever.

 

[BobRyan]

Luke 16 is a parable about all the saints sitting in Abraham's lap and the wicked praying to Abraham asking him to authorize the resurrection of one of the dead saints to speak to the living and warn them...

Christ said in his own summary of this parable that it was intended to teach the point that we must accept the writings of Moses or we will ultimately reject the Words of Christ.

(Read Luk 16 it is all there). But of course nobody pays attention to what Christ said the parable was meant to teach - everyone is too busy imagining that all the saints really are sitting in Abraham's lap.

Let's use exegesis in Luke 16 to "let the bible speak" for itself -- instead.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Matt 10 by contrast is NOT a parable at all.

In it Christ said that God destroys "BOTH body AND SOUL" in fiery hell.

They are BOTH destroyed in hell - the 2nd death - the lake of fire.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In Rev 14:10 Christ informs us that the wicked SUFFER ALL of their torment "IN THE PRESENCE of the Lamb AND of His Holy Ones" -- you will be there for ever second of it - as your friends and relatives that did not make it to heaven are tormented.

No "partying behind their backs as they writhe in torment" the way many have supposed it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

In Jude we are told that the Cities of Sodom and Gomorrah are exhibited for us today as literal "examples" of actually undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.

You can believe it.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

So the answer is "no" you have no Bible basis for telling others that God torments the wicked forever in hell. Not the teenagers, not the 20 year olds, not the 30 year olds.... NONE of them owe "infinite torment and suffering". They DO owe torement and suffering for their sins - a certain "amount" and that amount was exactly paid by Christ who paid the SUM of all the suffering debt owed by all sinners in all of time - at the Cross.

And He did this that He might offer to all - the Gospel of salvation for "Whosoever will" to accept -- "That whosoever believes on Him" might be saved. IF they still choose to go to hell anyway - to burn in the fire and brimstone torment of the Lake of Fire - the second death "anyway" -- then that is where they will go and they will indeed be tormented there. But then "both BODY and soul will be DESTROYED" - rather than "supernaturally sustained with eternal life forever".

Satan said "you shall NOT surely die" -- he was dead wrong. God said in Gen 3 "lest they eat of the tree of life and LIVE forever..." as sinners in rebellion against God -- and He blocked their access to the tree of life. But many suppose that "eternal life for sinners blaspheming God and living in rebellion increasing sin" is EXACTLY what God is going to get -- even though HE says He blocked that option off.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

Death is destroyed in the lake of fire before those not in Christ are cast in.

How can they die if death is destroyed?

 

[BobRyan]

Because after the lake of fire "event" there is NO more death, no more crying, no more tears, no more sorrow. All of that ends in the Lake of Fire.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[His Blood Spoke My Name]

So if there is no more death and the people are cast into the fire after death is destroyed, they cannot die.

Annihilation would mean they woudl die, yet death has been destroyed so they cannot even be annihilated.

 

[BobRyan]

While no text says "death is destroyed before the Lake of Fire" - you do bring up a good point.

Your view has only "life" for the wicked in the Lake of Fire -- which is "called the SECOND DEATH" in the Bible.

that is instructive.

God says that the fiery judgment reserved for the wicked "destroys BOTH body AND soul" there is no way to spin "desstroy" into "eternal life". notice that in Matt 10 He says that in THIS life they have the ability to kill the BODY but not the soul.

Then we find in the Lake of Fire - that BOTH BODY and SOUL are not only killed but entirely "destroyed".

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Snitzelhoff]

I'm not attempting to argue here, but I have never seen a satisfactory annihilationist explanation for Revelation 14:11--"And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no rest day or night, who worship the beast and his image, and whoever receives the mark of his name." A lot of Scriptures seem to point toward an annihilationist view, but that one seems to point quite well away from it. Any thoughts, Bob?

Michael

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Lu 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.

I suppose if we are to accept BR’s interpretation of the word ‘destroyed’ the wicked could not even seen the judgment in this case for they were ‘destroyed’ before they could have possibly arrived there.

 

[BobRyan]

If God said "destroyed them - both body and soul" in Luke just as He said in Matt 10 then we could go along with your argument from Luke being the SAME as God's argument in Matt 10. But you have glossed over that inconvenient detail to make your argument above - so perhaps you simply missed it.

Therefore Christ's argument in MAtt 10 - remains. In THIS life it is the body that is destroyed - not the soul. In the Lake of Fire - it is BOTH.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[RedemptionAddiction]

Thanks

Thanks for the input guys

 

[John of Japan]

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times, Serif]I was wondering if you guys might have an answer to an issue I’ve just recently found. It has to do with the word "eternal" used in the Bible. I know that in the Greek (in the NT) it’s "ion", or "ionos" which can mean either forever, or a span of time. I guess my question is, if this word can mean both forever and also a period of time, how can I believe with absolute certainty that hell is forever? Because I sure don’t want to go around telling people they’re going to be in hell forever if they don’t accept Christ, if I don’t have absolute, solid scripture that backs it up. If I can get an answer to this, I’d really appreciate it. I understand how serious an issue it is, so I want to know for sure that what I believe about it can clearly be shown from God’s Word.[/FONT]

Actually, the Greek term normally translated "forever" is an idiom, "eis tous aionas," meaning literally "into the ages." The use of the plural for "ages" means that yes, Heaven and Hell are truly what we think of as eternal in English, without end. In the book of Revelation occurs an even stronger variation of the idiom, "eis tous aionas ton aionon," translated "for ever and ever" and meaning literally "into the ages of the ages." This idiom is used in Revelation for both eternity in Heaven and eternity in Hell. Thus, eternity in Hell is just as long as eternity in Heaven--forever and ever.

 

[John of Japan]

Matt 10 by contrast is NOT a parable at all.

In it Christ said that God destroys "BOTH body AND SOUL" in fiery hell.

They are BOTH destroyed in hell - the 2nd death - the lake of fire.

In Christ,

Bob

You are reading 21st century English back into Biblical Greek. The Greek word in your passage is apollumi, which doesn't mean annihilation like the English word "destroy" does. For example, this word is used by God's angel in Matt. 2:13 for Herod trying to kill the baby Jesus.:type:

 

[DQuixote]

Thank you, John of Japan! Your comments are always welcome!

:thumbs:

 

[John of Japan]

Thank you, John of Japan! Your comments are always welcome!

:thumbs:

Any time. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[BobRyan]

You are reading 21st century English back into Biblical Greek. The Greek word in your passage is apollumi, which doesn't mean annihilation like the English word "destroy" does. For example, this word is used by God's angel in Matt. 2:13 for Herod trying to kill the baby Jesus.:type:

In Matt 10 we have a clear progression FROM "kill" to "destroy". Christ points out that in THIS life the wicked ARE able to "KILL the body but not (kill) the soul". But by comparison God not only kills but "DESTROYS" BOTH body AND soul in fiery hell.

The text is devastating to those who reject Christ's teaching that body and soul are not only KILLEd in fiery hell they are DESTROYED -- and instead they predict "eternal life for the soul but not the body in fiery hell".

Kill – Grk “Apokteino”

1. to kill in any way whatever
   1. to destroy, to allow to perish
2. metaph. to extinguish, abolish
   1. to inflict mortal death
   2. to deprive of spiritual life and procure eternal misery in hell

NAS (74) - kill, 33; killed, 29; killing, 1; kills, 5; put to death, 4; put...to death, 2;

Detroy – Grk “apollumi”

1. to destroy
   1. to put out of the way entirely, abolish, put an end to ruin
   2. render useless
   3. to kill
   4. to declare that one must be put to death

NAS (93) - bring, 1; destroy, 17; destroyed, 9; dying, 1; end, 1; killed, 1; lose, 10; loses, 7; lost, 14; much, 1; passed away, 1; perish, 14; perishable, 1; perished, 4; perishes, 1; perishing, 6; put to death, 1; ruined, 3;

In Christ,

Bob