I heard the rapture is supposed to be really soon!

[tamborine lady]

Yes Claudia, that's it!! As a matter of fact, that sounds better than the way I said it! Thanks.

Peace,

Tam

 

[xdisciplex]

I don't understand this. If it is so clear as Bob said it and when Matthew 24 gives us the exact order of events then why are christians having different opinions about when the rapture takes place when it's so clear?

 

[Jim1999]

There is a rapture? Never read that in scripture. I do believe Jesus is coming again in power and in glory and we ought to be ready for that glorious event.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by xdisciplex:
I don't understand this. If it is so clear as Bob said it and when Matthew 24 gives us the exact order of events then why are christians having different opinions about when the rapture takes place when it's so clear?

Because the "traditions of man" are often found to cloud the mind of many a sincere Christian. When that happens they will need to "explain away" the offending text.

But in this case the "offending" text is a clear presentation by Christ of the exact sequence and relationship between the tribulation period and the great hope of the church - the appearing of the Son of Man --which brings us to the rapture of the church and the gathering of the saints.

Consider the example of Mark 7

Mark 7
6 And He said to them, ""Rightly did Isaiah prophesy of you hypocrites, as it is written: " THIS PEOPLE HONORS ME WITH THEIR LIPS, BUT THEIR HEART IS FAR AWAY FROM ME.
7 " BUT IN VAIN DO THEY WORSHIP ME, TEACHING AS DOCTRINES THE PRECEPTS OF MEN.'
8 ""Neglecting the commandment of God, you hold to the tradition of men.''
9 He was also saying to them, ""You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
10 ""For Moses said, " HONOR YOUR FATHER AND YOUR MOTHER'; and, " HE WHO SPEAKS EVIL OF FATHER OR MOTHER, IS TO BE PUT TO DEATH';
11 but you say, "If a man says to his father or his mother, whatever I have that would help you is Corban (that is to say, given to God),'
12 you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or his mother;
13 thus invalidating the word of God by your tradition which you have handed down; and you do many things such as that.''

Often we are quick to dismiss the error of the Jews saying "yes but of course they WERE jews after all". But that is not good thinking.

In fact these are THE leaders of God's ONE true church started at Sinai. These are not Philistines nor pagan Romans! These are worshippers of the ONE TRUE God with the ONE TRUE Bible. And it is THEY that are substituting man-made-tradition and invalidating the clear word of God with that made up stuff.

That same problem still plagues mankind.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
There is a rapture? Never read that in scripture. I do believe Jesus is coming again in power and in glory and we ought to be ready for that glorious event.

Cheers,

Jim

The 1000 years of Rev 20 "are real" - and occur between the first resurrection and the 2nd resurrection.

Matt 24 "is real" and the sequence is exactly correct.

1Thess 4 speaks of the rapture of the Church at that same "First resurrection" already identified in Rev 20. "Our gathering together to him" if you prefer the "long version" instead of the short term "rapture"!

2Thess 2:1-10 also describes that same event.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Jim1999]

Oh, I am familiar with the false teachings of dispensationalism and premilliennialism. I just don't see it taught in scripture...and I don't need all the scriptural references. I do know the scriptures, thank you very much.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Ed Edwards]

Jim1999: //There is a rapture? Never read that in scripture.//

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ ):
Then we who are still alive will be caught up together with them
in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air;
and so we will always be with the Lord.

1 Thessalonians 4:17 (The Latin Vulgate ):
deinde nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur cum
illis in nubibus obviam Domino in aera et sic semper cum Domino erimus

Latin 'simul' meaning 'together';
Latin 'rapiemur' meaning 'caught up'.
From the Latin 'rapiemur' we get the English word 'rapture'.
So what ever 'caught up' means in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 is
what the doctrine of the 'rapture' is about.

The doctrine of the 'the rapture' comes from the Bible.

 

[Ed Edwards]

The Five Tribulations
of the Holy Bible
Contrasted and compared
by ed

The following terms are used in the Holy Bible to denote
tribulation: tribulation, distress, afliction, trouble

1. tribulation due to the human condition
WHO: all the sons and daughters of Adam & Eve
WHAT: heartaches, pains, troubles, distresses, disappointements,
affliction, trouble, ordeal, suffering, wretchedness,
misfortune, worry, care, hardship, agony,
anguish, torment, adversity,
travail of a woman giving birth, disease, cancer,
famine, plague, fatigue, depression, etc.
WHEN: From Adam's explusion from the Garden of Eden
to the day a new heaven & new earth is created by
God, AKA: time as opposed to eternity
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: God only knows why, it is just the way things are,
maybe it has to do with the fall of man in the Garden of Eden?

2. tribulation of Christian Martyrdom
WHO: those Christians chosen by the Holy Spirit for special honor
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
even people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: 33AD to the start of the millinnial kingdom of Jesus
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: many are called to follow Jesus;
few are chosen to the honor of the spiritual
gift of martyrdom

3. tribulation of the Jews scattered among the Gentiles
WHO: Yisrael dispersed among the goy
WHAT: persecution by non-Christians: Pagans, athiests, and
usually people who call themselves "Christian" but aren't
WHEN: during the time of the Gentiles
(from Mount Calvary to Mount Olivet)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Messiah Jesus

4. "The Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antichrist
(AKA: Wrath of the Lamb /Revelation 6:17/ )
WHO: citizens of the world
WHAT: a fate worse than death (Rev 6:15-17, Rev 9:6)
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (first half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

5. "The Great Tribulation period" of those ruled by the Antrichrist
WHO: people who take the mark of the beast
WHAT: the wrath of God
WHEN: during the 70th week of Daniel (last half)
WHERE: worldwide
WHY: punishment for rejecting Lord Jesus

Here are the names/descriptions of the Tribulation
Period found in the O.T.:

The tribulation in Deut 4:30
the day of Israel's calamity in Deut 32:35, Obadiah 1:12-14
the indignation in Isaiah 26:20, Daniel 11:36
the overflowing scourge in Isaiah 28:15,18
The Lord's strange work in Isaiah 28:21
The year of recompence in Isaiah 34:8
The day of vengeance in Isaiah 34:8, 35:4, 61:2
The time of Jacob's Trouble in Jeremiah 30:7
The day of darkness in Joel 2:2, Amos 5:18, 20; Zephaniah 1:15
See also Zephaniah 1:15-16.:

 

[BobRyan]

Originally posted by Jim1999:
Oh, I am familiar with the false teachings of dispensationalism and premilliennialism. I just don't see it taught in scripture...and I don't need all the scriptural references. I do know the scriptures, thank you very much.

Cheers,

Jim

your detailed response to each scripture given above refuting your traditions is as thorough and compelling as usual Jim.

Thanks for providing it "once again".

I should be able to keep each of the salient points you have given in that post clearly in mind next time those "inconvenient" scriptures come up!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Ed Edwards]

The penultimate verse of the Bible says:

Rev 22:20 (KJV1769 with STRONG'S NUMBERS):
He which testifieth3140 these things5023 saith,3004 Surely3483 I come2064 quickly.5035 Amen.281 Even so,3483 come,2064 Lord2962 Jesus.2424

G5035
ταχύ
tachu
takh-oo'
Neuter singular of G5036 (as adverb); shortly,
that is, without delay, soon, or (by surprise)
suddenly, or (by implication of ease)
readily: - lightly, quickly.

So the 'tachu' in Greek can mean
in a short time,
suddenly,
easily,
but the translation in the KJV1769 is 'quickly'.

2Pe 3:8 (KJV1611 Edition):
But (beloued) bee not ignorant of this one thing,
that one day is with the Lord as a thousand yeeres,
and a thousand yeeres as one day.

The Lord left under TWO DAYS AGO.
The Lord will be back soon, just on God's time!