I think that maybe I don't even have faith

[xdisciplex]

I thought about this today.
Either you believe the things which the bible says or you don't. Either you believe that Jesus died for you and that God loves you or you don't. But in my case it was always that I wanted a personal proof from God that he loves me, that Jesus didn't just die for everybody but that he also died for me because then I can also think maybe he simply died for all but there are some which he died more for than for others.
I don't know, maybe I simply don't really believe this. I mean if I believed this then shouldn't I be happy? But I'm not happy at all.
To me it simply makes no sense. If God loves me so much and paid such a huge price for me then why doesn't he help me when I have problems and feel miserable? This is like giving somebody a cheque for 1 million but then you don't give him a few cents for something else. I don't understand this.
In such moments I simply question God's love. I can't help. To me it makes no sense. If God simply doesn't seem to be there and if God is always silent and you needed help and don't know what to do then wouldn't you also ask yourself why?
How does this fit together? If he loves me so much then why is he silent? And in these moments I think what if he doesn't care or what if he has left me and I cannot defend myself against these thoughts. I cannot simply quote a bible verse and then be happy, it doesn't work.
Why doesn't God give me what I needed? I wish he would simply show me that he cares about me and let me know what he also cares about my problems but he's always silent. This can drive you crazy, it really can. :tear:
If I could I would just make him say something to me but this silence is really the worst. If he at least told me what he doesn't like about me then I could at least try to work on this, but I don't know anything. I don't know what he thinks or wether he's angry or wether this silence is a punishment for something. I simply have no clue. This makes God and prayer look so powerless as if God doesn't intervene today anymore. As if God just watches everything but he doesn't do anything. I wish I would see God do something. But maybe my doubts, which I don't want to have, but I still have them, make everything only worse and God sits up there and says: "Well, I would have done something but now where he doubts me I won't. Sorry."

I simply don't get it. In the bible God did miracles and intervened but when I pray I feel like everything is so senseless and it seems as if God is too powerless to do something. This is the impression which I get when I pray and ask God for help and nothing happens. I don't want to do God wrong but I am simply whacked and clueless.



And then always the hoping that maybe others can help me. Maybe the mighty man of God who claims to hear God and to experience miracle after miracle but when I go to him for help what do I get? No real help. Maybe God simply doesn't want to help me, maybe this is the explanation.

 

[DHK]

I thought about this today.
Either you believe the things which the bible says or you don't. Either you believe that Jesus died for you and that God loves you or you don't. But in my case it was always that I wanted a personal proof from God that he loves me, that Jesus didn't just die for everybody but that he also died for me because then I can also think maybe he simply died for all but there are some which he died more for than for others.

Jesus loves me this I know;
For the Bible tells me so.

1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

John 20:31 but these are written, that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in his name.

Faith is just confidence in the Word of God that His promises are true. It is based on the claims of Jesus Christ--that what He claimed about Himself was true. He demonstrated His claims (that He was God, come in the flesh) by His resurrection. No other leader of any religion has been able to duplicate that claim. Christ lives today. He is no longer in the grave. The resurrection is one of most verifiable facts of history. What more do we need.

 

[webdog]

Faith is belief in action.

 

[FriendofSpurgeon]

I'm not so sure that doubting is the opposite of faith. Normally, doubting is part of our faith. Many times, it's the ants in the pants which helps keep our faith alive. BTW, do you think nonbelievers struggle with their doubt??

 

[Scarlett O.]

There's not a whole lot that anyone can say to you anymore along these lines. It is as you say it is.....you either believe or you don't believe.

Just know that there are many BBer's praying for you.

If having God take away all of our burdens and sorrows is a requirement or proof of His love for us, then you will never be at peace.

The Apostle Paul suffered tremendously. He, like you, had a terrible burden that the bible doesn't explicitly explain. He asked God three times to take it away and God responded three times in silence.

Paul suffered in prison, shipwrecks, near fatal snake bites, and there were people who wanted him dead.

But in all of this, Paul said that no matter what his circumstances, he had learned to be content.

That didn't mean that the suffering went away. It meant that he rose above the suffering knowing that God's silence did not imply abandonment.

He still suffered, even after making that statement about content. Even his expressing his faith in God didn't alter all of his circumstances.

Faith isn't demanding evidence as a prerequisite for belief. It's belief even when the you cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[Helen]

xdx, everyone has faith. It depends on the object of your faith as to what sort of person you are. You have faith in yourself. You are always figuring what makes sense to you, what makes you happy, etc. You are depending on your own mind to figure things out.

When you get tired of that, call out to Jesus. You will find He is real and that you will be able to have faith in Him without all the pain you are experiencing now inside yourself.

 

[xdisciplex]

Does this mean that God doesn't care if we suffer or not because this is simply not important to him? Does this mean that because Paul suffered all christians will have to suffer and then it's simply God's will?
Great. But what do I do if this is simply getting too much for me? What do I do then? What if this is killing me? What if life is only a burden? Shall I simply sit back and quote a few bible verses and delight in the thought that Paul also suffered? Oh yeah, this helps me big time.....

 

[DHK]

Does this mean that God doesn't care if we suffer or not because this is simply not important to him? Does this mean that because Paul suffered all christians will have to suffer and then it's simply God's will?
Great. But what do I do if this is simply getting too much for me? What do I do then? What if this is killing me? What if life is only a burden? Shall I simply sit back and quote a few bible verses and delight in the thought that Paul also suffered? Oh yeah, this helps me big time.....

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Romans 8:17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God.

 

[xdisciplex]

Oh man, this is no suffering for his sake!
I am not chased by muslims, okay!?!??
I am simply damn depressive! That's it. This is not suffering for his sake!
This has nothing to do with it. It has no freaking purpose! It doesnt help me!
All it does is make me want to die. Okay!?

Gosh!!!!11

 

[Scarlett O.]

xdx, you are having a bad day.....

Just let it go for right now....that anger that accompanies depression....just let it go for today.

Right now, our answers are frustrating you terribly. Come back later. We'll still be here.

 

[xdisciplex]

but i dont find peace

 

[DHK]

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

 

[Helen]

I didn't find peace either while I was trying to approach God intellectually. Our intellects are so far inferior to His that what I was trying to do was absurd. He does say, in Isaiah 1, to 'come let us reason together'. But the entire point of that invitation, as He explains, is so that you will realize your sinfulness and need of Him.

At that point you can either try to deny your own sinfulness, or admit it and try to fix yourself, or give up and submit your life and self to Him. Very often the last option requires one to 'reach the end of one's rope' -- and yes, that is what happened to me and to a lot of us here. It may be what is happening to you now.

All I can tell you is that you can give up and give in to Him. It seems so hard from your side of things, I know. All I can tell you is that it is the best thing I ever did and that, since then, He has been forming me into the kind of person I always wanted to be deep inside. And that yes, there is a deep peace involved, and a joy that I really cannot explain. It is a joy that is still quietly there (don't confuse it with surface happiness) when things seem to go all wrong. Why? Because I know I don't have to understand and I don't have to be in charge. God knows. God loves me. God is working all things to my good eventually, simply because I love Him.

You have the same wrestlings and the same choices we have all had. Your path is not new! Many of us know what real depression is. We know what that wrestling with God is like. We know the fear of giving up and wondering if He will crush us or turn us into sour persimmon Christians or something like that, or make us do all kinds of things we don't want to do. I remember being that kind of afraid.

Those fears are groundless. I cannot even begin to express what it's like on this side. He knows what He is doing. Wrestle as long as you need to, xdx, and then, when you have no more to wrestle with, give up, give in, and call on His Name. He's right there and He loves you.

 

[xdisciplex]

Isaiah 26:3 Thou wilt keep him in perfect peace, whose mind is stayed on thee: because he trusteth in thee.

does this mean that a real christian always has peace?
this only makes me feel worse! do you not see that I dont have peace?
do you think this verse helps me? sometimes i dont understand what some people think when they post something.

 

[xdisciplex]

Those fears are groundless. I cannot even begin to express what it's like on this side. He knows what He is doing. Wrestle as long as you need to, xdx, and then, when you have no more to wrestle with, give up, give in, and call on His Name. He's right there and He loves you.

I have no clue what you are talking about. These sound like phrases to me. I cant work with them. It sounds like all I have to do is give all to him, whatever this means, and then everything will be fine. You dont know how often I have prayed and wanted to change everything and it didnt work.
What is supposed to change? I have real problems, okay? As long as these problems are there I will feel miserable! There is no easy solution. But you make it look so easy.

 

[DHK]

does this mean that a real christian always has peace?
this only makes me feel worse! do you not see that I dont have peace?
do you think this verse helps me? sometimes i dont understand what some people think when they post something.

No it means when you focus your attention on the Word of God, and its Author, Jesus Christ our Lord, who is the Prince of Peace, He will give you peace. Trust in His promises. Find time to be alone with God. Pray and read his Word. "Peace I leave you, peace I give unto you; not as the world giveth, give I unto you; let not your heart be troubled neither let it be afraid."

 

[Scarlett O.]

does this mean that a real christian always has peace?
this only makes me feel worse! do you not see that I dont have peace?
do you think this verse helps me? sometimes i dont understand what some people think when they post something.

DHK only means to help you. He wouldn't have posted that verse in friendship if he didn't want it to mean something to you and give you some insight into peace.

No, real christians don't always have peace about their circumstances. I have been a "real" christian for 37 years. I have know peace and I have known hell. During the times of quiet contentment and the times of blinding rage, I have been comforted by God's promises.

Have I doubted Him? Questioned Him? Feared Him? Misunderstood Him? Many times.

But do I trust Him in spite of my circumstances and in spite of myself. Yes. Even when I do not feel like it or even when it doesn't make sense.

I trust Him with my life and that's where I find peace....even in life's seemingly ridiculous moments.

I've got to go to church. Just don't think so hard for the rest of the day and meditate on what the people here who are taking time out of their day to help you are saying to you.

 

[bapmom]

does this mean that a real christian always has peace?
this only makes me feel worse! do you not see that I dont have peace?
do you think this verse helps me? sometimes i dont understand what some people think when they post something.

xdx,

"whose mind is stayed on thee" is the operative phrase in that verse. And peace is not the exact same thing as happiness in your circumstances. Peace is joy in SPITE of your circumstances. You seem to be expecting God to fix all your problems and to somehow force you to be happy.....as if He is supposed to wave a magic wand and change your emotional state. That's not how it works, my friend.

We all have our up and down days. I struggle with depression as well at times. Sometimes our circumstances are the result of our own bad choices (whether sin or just the wrong decision), and if we concentrate on those circumstances and stew about God not "getting us out of it", then yes, we have stolen our own peace from our heart.

and No, God isn't going to just magically rescue you from everything bad that could or does happen to you. He wants you first of all to remember that eternity is going to be a whole lot longer than the 70 years or so you'll have here on earth. God wants you to be prepared for the eternity part, and if that means some discomfort during your years here on earth, than so be it. Look at how many Christians were in so much worse of a state than you are in.........look at the life of Bunyan - wrote Pilgrim's Progress from prison. And not an American prison either.

In fact, if you haven't read it yet, why don't you go get yourself a copy of Pilgrim's Progress and read it? It'll put alot of things in perspective for you.

Im not saying any of this to make you feel beat up because you are having a hard day. I AM saying this because you need to realize that God

A) does not usually save us from ourselves - meaning He doesn't snap His fingers and get us out of a situation we got ourselves into

and

B) Hardships you go through are another chance for God to grow your faith in Him. God gives us faith, and then He helps us grow that faith larger through struggles. You have to let Him do that though. He's not going to force it on you. It's just like a toddler learning how to walk. We don't carry the child around so they never fall, because then they never walk. The child has to be put in what seems to them to be a scary situation so that they exercise those leg muscles.

God wants you to exercise your faith muscles. But if you sit and become upset at God for not "helping" you get out of these hardships, then you'll become bitter, not better.

 

[bapmom]

What is supposed to change? I have real problems, okay? As long as these problems are there I will feel miserable! There is no easy solution. But you make it look so easy.

I just read this statement of yours...

think about this......you have decided that as long as you have problems you will be miserable. This is YOU deciding to be miserable because of the problems in your life. I know you have real problems, and maybe they are bigger than someone else's....but that does not mean you have to be miserable.

You can be happy in spite of your problems. It is as DHK posted.....your mind needs to be stayed on Christ if you expect to have peace. Right now your mind is focused on your problems.

 

[Jim1999]

As a starter, I suggest you stop reading some of the literature that is causing a lot of the questions you have been asking over the months.

I have suggested this book before, and present it again. The author was a trained psychiatrist and sound evangelical believer. The Fight, Dr. John White, InterVarsity Press, $9.00 US funds and available on the net at http://www.InterVarsitypress.com. This book covers the basics of Christianity and discusses a lot of the questions you have been asking.

Cheers, and God bless,

Jim