If C, then what is Satan's motivation?

[humblethinker]

If Calvinism is true... What is Satan's motivation?

To further narrow the question: I have always considered that part of Satan's motivation to increase the number of humans that would experience eternal suffering. However if Calvinism is the true reality then would that be a reasonable description of Satan's motivation?

 

[JesusFan]

If Calvinism is true... What is Satan's motivation?


To further narrow the question: I have always considered that part of Satan's motivation to increase the number of humans that would experience eternal suffering. However if Calvinism is the true reality then would that be a reasonable description of Satan's motivation?

Satan is NOT involved in the plan of salavation IF calvinism is the truth regarding just HOW God saves the sinner from going to hell...
satan does NOT even rule in/over hell, that is Hollywood, as he is out and about ont he earth at this time...

he will be cast down into the lake of fire at end of all things, forever experiencing the punishment for his rebellion against God...
it will be His prison to be stuck in forever, NOT his kingdom to reign/rule over!


he is always trying to undermine the plans pf the Lord, to strike back at god for "daring" to cast him from the heavenly realm...
Humans are just part of the "fodder' he uses to try to get things done his way...

 

[humblethinker]

(please disregard this reply, see reason below)

 

[humblethinker]

(please disregard this reply, see reason below)

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Satan is NOT involved in the plan of salavation IF calvinism is the truth regarding just HOW God saves the sinner from going to hell...
satan does NOT even rule in/over hell, that is Hollywood, as he is out and about ont he earth at this time...

he will be cast down into the lake of fire at end of all things, forever experiencing the punishment for his rebellion against God...
it will be His prison to be stuck in forever, NOT his kingdom to reign/rule over!


he is always trying to undermine the plans pf the Lord, to strike back at god for "daring" to cast him from the heavenly realm...
Humans are just part of the "fodder' he uses to try to get things done his way...

I would agree with this assessment. :thumbsup:

 

[Winman]

If God from eternity elects who will be saved, and these persons are irresistably saved, and if God passes by all the rest, that being impossible for them to be saved, what work is there for Satan to do?

He cannot make the dead any more dead than they were at birth, and he cannot prevent the elect from being saved.

He cannot even make the unelect sin, for everything they do is sin.

At most he can cause the elect to lose some rewards.

If I were Satan, I would relax on a beach somewhere, there really is no work to be done by him. Might as well enjoy himself while he can.

 

[humblethinker]

...he is always trying to undermine the plans pf the Lord, to strike back at god for "daring" to cast him from the heavenly realm...

For the sake of conversation let's all assume this premise:

Premise: Calvinism is reality

Possible Scenario 1: Satan has no knowledge that Calvinism exists.
Possible Scenario 2: Satan is aware of Calvinism but is unable to understand that it is the reality.
Possible Scenario 3: Satan is aware of Calvinism and also believes that it is reality.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

For the sake of conversation let's all assume this premise:

Premise: Calvinism is reality

Possible Scenario 1: Satan has no knowledge that Calvinism exists?
Possible Scenario 2: Satan is aware of Calvinism but is unable to understand that it is the reality.
Possible Scenario 3: Satan is aware of Calvinism and also believes that it is reality.

I am not sure of the purpose of these questions. What end do you think reasoning along these lines serves?

 

[humblethinker]

I am not sure of the purpose of these questions. What end do you think reasoning along these lines serves?

I'm just trying to further understand how my understanding of scripture and reality might change if I accepted Calvinism as the reality.

 

[Winman]

Originally Posted by humblethinker

For the sake of conversation let's all assume this premise:

Premise: Calvinism is reality

Possible Scenario 1: Satan has no knowledge that Calvinism exists?
Possible Scenario 2: Satan is aware of Calvinism but is unable to understand that it is the reality.
Possible Scenario 3: Satan is aware of Calvinism and also believes that it is reality.

I am sure Satan understands Calvinism, the scriptures say he is full of wisdom.

Eze 28:12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.
13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.
14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

Satan is very intelligent, that is why it is so easy for him to tempt people. He knows every man's weakness.

Still, what good is it to tempt man? He cannot make the unelect any more lost than they were at birth, and he cannot prevent the elect from being saved.

Kind of a useless job, like being Vice President. :laugh:

 

[humblethinker]

Did Satan have a libertarian free will? Could he have not chosen to sin? Is he now able to choose between one evil act or the other or is every action of Satan predetermined or ordained by God?

 

[Skandelon]

Did Satan have a libertarian free will? Could he have not chosen to sin? Is he now able to choose between one evil act or the other or is every action of Satan predetermined or ordained by God?

That's what I was about to interject. In the Calvinistic system (at least in the compatibilistic model) even Satan, a creature, is casually determined to act in a way that God has foreordained.

Since God has "decreed whosoever comes to pass," then it must be reasoned that even the evil intents of the Deceiver were decreed/ordained by God Himself.

Now, different camps describe and define that in different ways as evidenced on this board. But any group that does NOT affirm the ability of free creatures to independently originate intents and desires would be hard pressed to avoid the accusations of divine culpability for evil (i.e. making God the author of sin).

 

[JesusFan]

That's what I was about to interject. In the Calvinistic system (at least in the compatibilistic model) even Satan, a creature, is casually determined to act in a way that God has foreordained.

i am a "moderate" cal, and would say that satan freely acted to rebell against God, but that God already had foreknowledge of that happening, and foreordained what He planned to do about it...

Basically, satan was still responsible for his own actions, and God decreed that he would still be able to get glory by working out in indivuals His divine acts of grace in future, especially thru the Cross of the coming messiah...

Since God has "decreed whosoever comes to pass," then it must be reasoned that even the evil intents of the Deceiver were decreed/ordained by God Himself.

God is aleways in direct control, can chose to intervene and directly cause, but also able to allow others to do what is good to them in order to bring His will to pass..

that is best showed in the Cross, where God had foreordained the Messiah, his Son Jesus, would die as atonement for Sins of man, but he also allowed and worked thru what sinful peoples had purposed in their hearts to do..

Now, different camps describe and define that in different ways as evidenced on this board. But any group that does NOT affirm the ability of free creatures to independently originate intents and desires would be hard pressed to avoid the accusations of divine culpability for evil (i.e. making God the author of sin).

have to refernce this idea though from before fall/after the fall...

Believed satan and Adam as created beings with no sin natures within them DID have "libertine" free will, but after the fall of each of them, were constricted as a result in a type of bondage to their will, which is not sinful...

so NNE today has real "libertine" free will except for the Lord....

 

[jbh28]

Satan knows he is going to be defeated(It's in the Bible) so whats the point of him doing anything at all?

 

[Skandelon]

have to refernce this idea though from before fall/after the fall...

Believed satan and Adam as created beings with no sin natures within them DID have "libertine" free will, but after the fall of each of them, were constricted as a result in a type of bondage to their will, which is not sinful...

so NNE today has real "libertine" free will except for the Lord....

It's good to know your perspective, but I'm sure your realize that many Calvinists on this board reject this view.

But, in response to your view, I would just say that I agree that men are born in NEED of a Savior, and enemies of God. But can you point me to any scripture which teaches that the powerful life-giving gospel appeal to be reconciled is somehow insufficient to give man that ability to respond.

It just seems absurd to suggest that we cannot respond to an appeal sent by God for us to be reconciled because we are born enemies. It's like saying my son can't accept my request to be reconciled because we are not reconciled yet. Calvinism, IMO, falsely teaches that men have to be reconciled (i.e. regenerated) in order to accept the gospel appeal to be reconciled, which just seems backwards to the scriptures teaching.

 

[Skandelon]

Satan knows he is going to be defeated(It's in the Bible) so whats the point of him doing anything at all?

So, do you think Satan believes the bible?