If no one is stepping up to the plate and doing the job and the harvest is truly plentious, should other church leaders back off and let God judge this man? If a divorced man is filling the role as a pastor and has a thriving church is it up to man or up to God to shut him down? Or bless his efforts?
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If divorced and filling the role as pastor, should other men of God back off and let
- Thread starter Soulman
- Start date
I am speaking of a man whose wife left him 26 years ago after he got saved and was called to the ministry. He remarried and has been married to the same woman for almost 25 years. They have a good marriage and several children. This man started a church over 10 years ago and it has flourished. It is an Independant Fundemantal KJVO Baptist church.
The problem is that there are some baptist preachers that don't believe a man should pastor under any circumstances if divorced.
I do not believe this way. The qualifications clearly state the husband of one wife.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
If the scripture means only one woman in a lifetime then who is really qualified. What if a man had ever been in a brawl or ever been drunk. Those things would equally disqualify a man from the pulpit. To many simply get on the bandwagon about the one woman thing. It means one woman at a time or thousands of others would be disqualified for breaking other tules more than once. We are forgiven for everything prior to salvation and this includes a bad marriage.
The problem is that there are some baptist preachers that don't believe a man should pastor under any circumstances if divorced.
I do not believe this way. The qualifications clearly state the husband of one wife.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
If the scripture means only one woman in a lifetime then who is really qualified. What if a man had ever been in a brawl or ever been drunk. Those things would equally disqualify a man from the pulpit. To many simply get on the bandwagon about the one woman thing. It means one woman at a time or thousands of others would be disqualified for breaking other tules more than once. We are forgiven for everything prior to salvation and this includes a bad marriage.
I agree. It was a polygamous society and the obvious reference is to one wife AT A TIME. I daresay others will disagree!
The unbeliever deserting the believer is one of the few permissible scriptural grounds for divorce, 1 Cor 7 says, let the unbeliever depart, in such cases the believer is not bound (which in the context has to mean is free to remarry). Also chances are very high indeed, in this sceanrio, that the unbeliving wife then committed adultery,another clear scriptural grounds for divorce.
It seems to me the man should be left well alone.
Liz
The unbeliever deserting the believer is one of the few permissible scriptural grounds for divorce, 1 Cor 7 says, let the unbeliever depart, in such cases the believer is not bound (which in the context has to mean is free to remarry). Also chances are very high indeed, in this sceanrio, that the unbeliving wife then committed adultery,another clear scriptural grounds for divorce.
It seems to me the man should be left well alone.
Liz
Then there is what Christ called it - adultery - and adultery is adultery no matter how you spin it. The divorce is a divorce (single act) and adultery is adultery - ongoing rather than a single act if remarried.
Mark. 10.11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery .
Matt. 5.32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery .
Matt. 9.9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry .
Note the disciples reaction - seems they caught the drift of what He was saying.
Mark. 10.11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her. 12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery .
Matt. 5.32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery : and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery .
Matt. 9.9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except [it be] for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. 10 His disciples say unto him, If the case of the man be so with [his] wife, it is not good to marry .
Note the disciples reaction - seems they caught the drift of what He was saying.
I have a uncle who went to school to be a minister. He got married and his wife cheated on him, leading to a divorce. My uncle could never be a full time minister of any church. They would not allow him. Although at our church he could preach when the regular minister was on vacation or out ill. I thought this was very sad because my uncle would have made a wonderful minister.
D
dianetavegia
Guest
If this 'man' was unable to forgive his previous wife for her sin then what sort of a 'Christ-like' example is he as a 'pastor'? NO divorce or NO Pastorate!
Debby in Philly
Active Member
"old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."
THe fact that this is a KJVO church is a whole lot more dangerous than the fact that this man was divorced 26 years ago when he wife left him because he wanted to follow God, and has lived a godly life for the past 25 years. He should be confronted on his false doctrine, not on his marriage situation.
The reference in 1 Tim 3 is to the kind of man he is. Is he a womanizer, a flirt, too familiar with the ladies? If so, then he is disqualified. It has no reference to polygamy (i.e., one at a time) and it has only passing reference to divorce. Is the man blameless? It sounds like from the description given above, this man has lived a blameless life.
The reference in 1 Tim 3 is to the kind of man he is. Is he a womanizer, a flirt, too familiar with the ladies? If so, then he is disqualified. It has no reference to polygamy (i.e., one at a time) and it has only passing reference to divorce. Is the man blameless? It sounds like from the description given above, this man has lived a blameless life.
Plain Old Bill
New Member
It seems sins which are unforgivable for a pastor are smoking and divorce.
Forgivable sins are adultery,dipping snuff or chewing tobacco.
Is this hair splitting or what?Is this hypocriticle?
Forgivable sins are adultery,dipping snuff or chewing tobacco.
Is this hair splitting or what?Is this hypocriticle?
Paul of Eugene
New Member
It all comes from men adding to the scripture and saying that one wife means not just one wife NOW. We all know the biblical warnings against adding to scripture but it doesn't stop them from doing it.
Debby in Philly
Active Member
How do you hold a man accountable for what he did before he was saved? Sin is sin.
It would be OK if he had been a murderer before he was saved and then became a pastor? If that's true, then divorced before he was saved is the same thing. Jesus said to the woman, "Go, and sin no more."
It would be OK if he had been a murderer before he was saved and then became a pastor? If that's true, then divorced before he was saved is the same thing. Jesus said to the woman, "Go, and sin no more."
Lacy Evans
New Member
This is terribly presumptuious. What does "not forgiving his wife" necessarily have to do with divorce. What if she fornicated, left him, and married another? What if his holiness is what drove her to leave him? What if he had absolutely no opportunity to remain married to her? Does that mean he "can't forgive her"?
Also, a man can (and should) forgive anything, but that in no way requires him to ever TRUST her again. He doesn't have to remarry a fornicating whoremongering liar just because he forgave her. A marriage is built on trust.
Also if he remains unmarried, how does that change his "forgivness" or lack thereof?
Lacy
It is inconceivable that God would raise up a man to act in a capacity that is contrary to His word. Neither should anyone dwell on divorce as the primary disqualifying criteria for a pastor. A man is equally unfit if he is not found blameless, or able to rule his own house. Likewise if he is greedy or exercises bad behavior he is also unfit to pastor and the list goes on. The pastor is a special man and we minimize the office when we place men in the office that are not qualified to be there.
We have a tendency to rationalize our fitness to serve in a particular capacity because we are forgiven, but forgiveness does not always erase the consequences of our actions. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was forgiven, but he still paid the penalty for the crimes he committed before he was saved.
We have a tendency to rationalize our fitness to serve in a particular capacity because we are forgiven, but forgiveness does not always erase the consequences of our actions. The thief on the cross next to Jesus was forgiven, but he still paid the penalty for the crimes he committed before he was saved.
This shows a fundamental misunderstanding that leads to many of these problems about who is qualified. "Blameless" is not "one of the requirements." It is the requirement. Period. EVerything else in that list is an example of what it means to be blameless.
The "husband of one wife" means "one woman man." That is the literal translation of the phrase. A divorced man can be a one woman man and blameless. A never divorced man might not be a one woman man and might not be blameless.
This whole scenario shows another problem. We are too often willing to let a man off the hook doctrinally. We should not be. Doctrinal qualifications are just as important as others, and a man that holds aberrant doctrine is unqualified to pastor.
It is true that we should not minimize the office by having unqualified men in it. But we must use biblical qualifications, not man made ones.
Technically if you look at the issue of divorce from the perspective of the time during the NT, a betrothed person who would have broken the betrothal would have had to go through a divorce. To apply that to today's world it would mean any engaged person who broke the engagement would be technically divorced even though U.S. law does not recognize that today. When there was a betrothal, there was a legal document drawn up. Perhaps if we did that today, there might be less U.S. divorces.