If divorced and filling the role as pastor, should other men of God back off and let

[Rev. Phil Parrish]

How about this:

A man is called to preach. Preaches several years, in fact. Then his wife divorces him. Is he still called to preach? Does God change His mind and say "Uh-oh I made a mistake...I never should have called him. I take it back."
The Bible tells us that the calling of God is without repentance (Romans 11:29). I believe that if a preacher gets divorced he is still a preacher. Now whether or not that preacher preaches anymore may be a different story. Some preachers lay down their cross after divorce. If he is called then he should preach regardless. Divorce is not a sin.

 

[Soulman]

Posted by Rev. Phil Parrish: The Bible tells us that the calling of God is without repentance (Romans 11:29). I believe that if a preacher gets divorced he is still a preacher. Now whether or not that preacher preaches anymore may be a different story. Some preachers lay down their cross after divorce. If he is called then he should preach regardless. Divorce is not a sin.

Mr. Parrish,
I agree with you on this issue. You have some very insightful coments.

 

[Pastor Larry]

A man called to preach can disqualify himself (cf 1 Cor 9:27). When he does, he should stop preaching. Sin has consequences.

Divorce is sometimes a sin, but not always. It is always the result of sin. In the vast majority of cases, a divorced person is disqualified from pastoring because he is no longer blameless. That is not always the case, nor is it permanently the case. A man may (and I emphasize "may") regain his blamelessness after years of faithfulness. He may not.

Phil talks about dying affections. That is not a reason for divorce. If you do not love your wife, then you are disobedient to God. You should not stay together for the sake of hte children. You should stay together because God commanded it. Your loyalty to God must always override your love for children and concern for them. To divorce because "we just don't get along" or "irreconcilable differences" is sin. My suspicion is that Phil has a particular situation in mind in which two people are not living in obedience to God. Those people, whoever they are, need to be called on to repent and live in obedience to God. If sharp words are being exchanged, then they need to stop and to start building one another up (Eph 4). If selfish decisions are being made, then they need to stop and prefer one another (Rom 12). There is a biblical solution that involves the rebuilding of the marriage God's way rather than a sinful divorce.

But to the direct point, the qualification to pastor is blameless and a guy who willingly walked out of a marriage is not blameless.

 

[exscentric]

"Having said that, "unto death do us part", in my opinion, can also encompass a couples loss of desire and affection towards one another, to the point that their relationship is 'dead'."

Ahhh, now I get it, always wondered why I wasn't eternally secure! Thanks for the insight! (Read that as tongue in cheek to the point of great pain

Ehp 5.27 "That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. 28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. 29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: 30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. 31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife , and they two shall be one flesh. 32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. 33 Nevertheless let every one of you in particular so love his wife even as himself; and the wife [see] that she reverence [her] husband."

 

[preacherchris]

i at one had no problem with a divorced man preaching if she left him. i began to look at the reasons why a women would leave a man and there are more than one side to a marriage breaking up. so even though she left him he may not have been the kind of husband that he should have been and he would not have had his house in order.i have known some instances where a wife left for someone else and the husband unknown everyone else had either been an abuser or arounder himself but because she left he kept on preaching.

 

[Rev. Phil Parrish]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
A man called to preach can disqualify himself (cf 1 Cor 9:27). When he does, he should stop preaching. Sin has consequences.

Divorce is sometimes a sin, but not always. It is always the result of sin. In the vast majority of cases, a divorced person is disqualified from pastoring because he is no longer blameless. That is not always the case, nor is it permanently the case. A man may (and I emphasize "may") regain his blamelessness after years of faithfulness. He may not.

Phil talks about dying affections. That is not a reason for divorce. If you do not love your wife, then you are disobedient to God. You should not stay together for the sake of hte children. You should stay together because God commanded it. Your loyalty to God must always override your love for children and concern for them. To divorce because "we just don't get along" or "irreconcilable differences" is sin. My suspicion is that Phil has a particular situation in mind in which two people are not living in obedience to God. Those people, whoever they are, need to be called on to repent and live in obedience to God. If sharp words are being exchanged, then they need to stop and to start building one another up (Eph 4). If selfish decisions are being made, then they need to stop and prefer one another (Rom 12). There is a biblical solution that involves the rebuilding of the marriage God's way rather than a sinful divorce.

But to the direct point, the qualification to pastor is blameless and a guy who willingly walked out of a marriage is not blameless.

Yes, to PASTOR but not to PREACH. Notice I said that dying affections to the point that the relationship is dead. Just because affection and/or desire is not present does not necessarily mean that the relationship is beyond repair. However, it can reach that point. Affection/desire is not the same as LOVE. There are many relationships that lack affection, but love is still there.
Husbands are to love their wives as Christ loves the Church. Once divorced, he no longer has a wife to love. What then, is she still considered his wife? If she should marry another does he continue to love her seeing that she is another mans' wife? Is not this a sin? I don't agree with the reasoning behind many divorces, but they are still divorces.
As for a preacher 'disqualifying' himself it cannot be done, for God doesn't call the qualified - he qualifies the called. If a preacher can be disqualified unto God to preach, then every preacher that was ever called that didn't want the job could just commit a sin and his calling would be of none affect. God called Jonah to preach to Nineveh, then Jonah blatantly told God 'NO' and ran as fast and as hard as he could in the other direction. Now, refusing to do the will of God is a sin in anyones book. Did that get Jonah off the hook? Did God just say, "OK forget it Jonah, I'll get someone else". I dare say He did not.
When God called me to preach, I didn't want to do it. I TOLD God I wasn't 'qualified', but He said, "I want you to preach anyway!". I made up every excuse I could think of. I prayed and prayed about it. That didn't work, so I just quit going to church. I thought, "That'll show God that He can't be calling me to preach." Guess what? It didn't work! I was still called and there was nothing I could do about it! So I did what I should have done to begin with, just as Jonah had to do, I surrendered to God.
Yes, God holds a preacher to a higher standard than others and because He does, our chastisement is usually greater! Now, some may say that I am not qualified to preach since I was so pig-headed that I didn't do what God wanted me to do when He wanted me to do it. Yet, I have been preaching for over 24 years and God is still using me to reach lost sinners. I am not a pastor, have never been a pastor, and pray to God that He would never WANT me to pastor. But God still preaches me by the Holy Spirit and I've kinda gotten to the point now that I rather like it. If sin disqualifies preachers then there are no preachers, for He said that "...all have sinned and come short of the Glory of God".

 

[Dr. Bob]

And always be reminded that the I Tim 3 and Titus 1 qualification list are for PASTOR/ELDER only. If someone wants to preach, it is up to the listeners if they want to listen. He can do so on a street corner.

Pastoring though has serious qualifications that cause the office to be elevated (and worthy of double honor).

 

[Pastor Larry]

Notice I said that dying affections to the point that the relationship is dead.

They point to a spiritual life that is dead and in need of repentance. A person is not qualified to preach or pastor with unrepentant sin in their life. A person who has no affection for their spouse is living in disobedience to God. What do they have to preach about? They can't preach about obedience to God, becaues they are disobedient in the most important human relationship on this earth.

And I can't agree with Bob that preaching is so .. .hmmm ... what's the word ... trivialized for lack of a better one at present. I think Bob, with all due respect, presents too low a view of preaching. When one preaches they are speaking with teh authority of God. That demands certain qualifications. We should not relegate it to "anyone who wants." Preaching requires character.

 

[Rev. Phil Parrish]

Preaching requires character.

The only Biblical 'requirement' for preaching is the calling of God. Again, God does not call the qualified but qualifies the called. The Pharisees and Saducees were qualified in mans' eyes for they had great knowledge of the Law (read as OT law), yet Jesus called them hypocrites. The Apostle Paul was the least qualified in mans' eyes because of his history of persecuting Christians, yet God qualified him to be, in my opinion, the greatest of all of the apostles.

If a woman leaves her husband,he being a preacher, and subsequently divorces him how can you say that he is disqualified from preaching seeing he has done nothing wrong in the bonds of marriage. To make such a statement questions the character of the speaker, not the divorced preacher. Sin is almost always the cause of divorce, but not necessarily both parties have sinned. It takes two to get married but only one to obtain a divorce. In the state of Kentucky a divorce is granted when either party states there are irreconcilable differences, and please note that that is the ONLY grounds for divorce in Kentucky.
Now I am divorced. If I am not qualified to preach would someone please take the time to tell God that he has made a grave error. I preach because God tells me to, not because I made a vocational choice. Any person that would choose preaching as their vocation is surely a few bricks shy of a load. Now I am speaking of Holy Ghost, God-sent, Spirit-filled preaching. Hellfire and brimstone preaching, in my opinion that is the only preaching there is, anything short of that is speeching - not preaching. Preaching is not popular, so I guess it's a good thing that I'm not in a popularity contest. I believe that when a person sits under the power of the preached word of God, it will affect there life. It will either make'em repent, make'em rejoice, or make'em mad, but it will have an affect. Contrary to popular belief, preachers are hard to come by....teachers are a dime a dozen.

 

[Rev. Phil Parrish]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Pastoring though has serious qualifications that cause the office to be elevated (and worthy of double honor).

I agree with you Bob. I have the utmost respect for a pastor that leads his church by the Spirit.

An evangelist once told me, "The pastor has the hardest job in Christianity. An evangelist can come into the pastors church, drop his load, and be on his way while the pastor has to stay there to pick up the pieces."

 

[MTA]

I do not believe a divorced man should pastor anymore than I believe a surgeon that has suffered a stroke should still operate. Regardless of his recovery or how well he masks any continuing disability, there is still a handicap that is ever present. A pastor, even one that is blameless in a divorce proceeding, would always be handicapped in that regard. There would always be suspicion regarding his divorce and his counsel, in marital issues, would always be questioned for personal bias, even if none exists.

Now, having said that, I do believe that if a man is truly called to preach, then God will open opportunities for that man to continue to exercise his calling, other than as a pastor. Pastoring is a specific area of the work, but it is not "the" work.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Rev. Phil Parrish:
The only Biblical 'requirement' for preaching is the calling of God.

Um. NO ... You have to have right doctrine, you have to have righ character. Paul clearly shows that it is possible to be disqualified from preaching (1 Cor 9:27).

If a woman leaves her husband,he being a preacher, and subsequently divorces him how can you say that he is disqualified from preaching seeing he has done nothing wrong in the bonds of marriage.

I didn't say that, and I wouldn't.

Any person that would choose preaching as their vocation is surely a few bricks shy of a load.

This is a false dichotomy. I preach because I want to. God has planted the desire in my heart to preach the word. I made a vocational choice.

Now I am speaking of Holy Ghost, God-sent, Spirit-filled preaching. Hellfire and brimstone preaching, in my opinion that is the only preaching there is, anything short of that is speeching - not preaching.

Typically, this means a lot of shouting and ranting and raving with little or no actual biblical content. It reminds me of the old saying, "When your point gets weak just shout a little louder." It is a shame that people accept that as preaching.

Contrary to popular belief, preachers are hard to come by....teachers are a dime a dozen.

Another false dichotomy in many ways. All preaching must include teaching. And all teaching should include preaching. There may be differences to some degree, but the communication of hte word is what is important.

 

[Rev. Phil Parrish]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:
You have to have right doctrine, you have to have righ character.

Were not the scribes and Pharisees held in great esteem because of their knowledge of Scripture and their character?

(Mat 23:14) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

Any person that would choose preaching as their vocation is surely a few bricks shy of a load.

This is a false dichotomy. I preach because I want to. God has planted the desire in my heart to preach the word. I made a vocational choice.

I dare say that a desire to preach and a calling to preach are two seperate entities altogether.

Now I am speaking of Holy Ghost, God-sent, Spirit-filled preaching. Hellfire and brimstone preaching, in my opinion that is the only preaching there is, anything short of that is speeching - not preaching.

Typically, this means a lot of shouting and ranting and raving with little or no actual biblical content. It reminds me of the old saying, "When your point gets weak just shout a little louder." It is a shame that people accept that as preaching.

(1Co 1:18) For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
(1Co 1:19) For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
(1Co 1:20) Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
(1Co 1:21) For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

(1Co 1:25) Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.
(1Co 1:26) For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called:
(1Co 1:27) But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;


I have never heard preaching of the Word with no Bible content. Thank you for letting me know how weak and foolish Holy Ghost, God-sent, Spirit-filled preaching is. I kinda like the foolishness that God has blessed me with.

Contrary to popular belief, preachers are hard to come by....teachers are a dime a dozen.

Another false dichotomy in many ways. All preaching must include teaching. And all teaching should include preaching. There may be differences to some degree, but the communication of hte word is what is important.

Communication of the Word is important, but there is a difference in who delivers the Word. In Jesus' day the scribes and Pharisees did much teaching of the Scriptures, yet here is what Jesus had to say of them:

(Mat 23:15) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.

(Mat 23:27) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchers, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.

Scribes and Pharisees are described in these excerpts from Eastons' Bible Dictionary:

Scribes
"They were in the time of our Lord the public teachers of the people"

Pharisees
"They were extremely accurate and minute in all matters appertaining to the law of Moses"

[ December 06, 2004, 01:23 PM: Message edited by: Rev. Phil Parrish ]

 

[HankD]

IMO the underlying reason that the Scripture appears to be so contrary to divorcee men pastoring even in the event of innocence on the part of the man is not so much to focus upon the innocent male member but the scandal arising from the wagging tongues in the "community" in speculation of the circumstances and etc, surrounding the divorce.

Though the man may be totally innocent there will be the inevitable "talk".


HankD

 

[Pastor Larry]

Originally posted by Rev. Phil Parrish:
Were not the scribes and Pharisees held in great esteem because of their knowledge of Scripture and their character?

(Mat 23:14) Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows' houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.

You answered your own question. They were not held in high esteem. They lacked knowledge of hte Scriptures and they were hypocrites. They were not qualified to preach. Christ called them blind leaders of the blind.

I dare say that a desire to preach and a calling to preach are two seperate entities altogether.

I agree, but the two go hand in hand for those following Christ.

(1Co 1:18) ... (1Co 1:27)

[/qb]And??? If you read the context, the point there is not the method but the message preached. Christ crucified is what the stumblindblock was, not the fact that someone gets up in front of a group and talks about it.

I have never heard preaching of the Word with no Bible content. Thank you for letting me know how weak and foolish Holy Ghost, God-sent, Spirit-filled preaching is. I kinda like the foolishness that God has blessed me with.

I have heard it all too often. I heard Jack Hyles get up and preach an absolutely heretical message entitled "Keep Your Stinking Feet out of my drinking water." It was a blasphemous use of Scripture that had absolutely no biblical content. He was well known for that kind of "preaching." A Spirit-filled preacher is known by his content, not his method. And what is foolish is the message.

BTW, it is proper to refer to the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit, not the Holy Ghost.

Communication of the Word is important, but there is a difference in who delivers the Word. In Jesus' day the scribes and Pharisees did much teaching of the Scriptures, yet here is what Jesus had to say of them:

And they had no Bible content. They preached error and false doctrine. They did not communicate the word. There is certainly a difference in who delivers the word, which backs up what I have said all along, that character matters, not just anyone is qualified to preach.

 

[Rev. Phil Parrish]

Originally posted by Pastor Larry:

BTW, it is proper to refer to the Holy Spirit as the Holy Spirit, not the Holy Ghost.

The term 'Holy Spirit' is in the Bible 6 times while 'Holy Ghost' appears 89 times. Proper or not, I believe in Holy Ghost preaching.

And they had no Bible content. They preached error and false doctrine. They did not communicate the word.

The Pharisees did teach Bible content. As a matter of fact they were very adamant about it. They taught the law of Moses and the Prophets as it is written. They taught of a saviour that would come. They taught the Law (read OT law) to the letter. My Bible still consists of the Old and New Laws (Testaments).

There is certainly a difference in who delivers the word, which backs up what I have said all along, that character matters, not just anyone is qualified to preach.

Correct, not just anyone is qualified to preach. But every single one that God has called is qualified by Him. Not all are called. Some just think its' a good job to have and after many years of proper schooling in the art of preaching have no problem getting a proper congregation to listen to their elegant orations.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Rev. Phil Parrish:

The term 'Holy Spirit' is in the Bible 6 times while 'Holy Ghost' appears 89 times. Proper or not, I believe in Holy Ghost preaching.

There is no such thing as holy ghost preaching not holy ghosts. Ghosts are reserved for halloween.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by Rev. Phil Parrish:
The Pharisees did teach Bible content.

And a whole lot more too.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by MTA:
I do not believe a divorced man should pastor anymore than I believe a surgeon that has suffered a stroke should still operate.

Is that kind of like saying because David and Moses murdered someone they could not be used by God to lead His people. How about Peter who cut off a man's ear?

 

[MTA]

Not at all. I have not said that the man is no longer qualified to preach, or that God would not use that man in the ministry. I have only stated that he should not pastor because He is handicapped for that work.