Yet another excellent topic for discussion!
But before we venture into the muddle made by the various traditions of men, Calvinism, Arminianism, and Universalism, lets back up and define what we are talking about.
What does the term "unlimited atonement" actually mean? Now Christ died for all mankind, becoming the propitiation not only for us but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:2. But what does it mean for Christ to be the propitiation for the whole world. Does that mean the whole world has received the benefit of that propitiation? Nope.
"the World might have received a "general" benefit from it, in that the Lord did "usher in" the Age of grace, so that he was able to "wait" on judgment that has to fall on an unbelieving, sinful creation... " We are talking about the benefit of receiving reconciliation, not some "general" benefit.
Propitiation provides the means of our salvation. If God credits our faith in Christ as righteousness, then He puts us "into" Christ spiritually, where we are saved. Our sins are taken away, the circumcision of Christ, and we arise in Christ a new creation, created for good works. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit as a pledge to our inheritance reserved in heaven for us. So Christ's propitiation provides the washing of regeneration, and allows us to be reconciled to God, no longer separated and spiritually dead, but alive together with Christ.
So if we define "providing reconciliation" as unlimited, i.e. for the whole world, but define "receiving reconciliation" as limited to those whose faith is credited as righteousness and are placed "in Christ" then we have a basis for discussing the work of the cross.
"Sounds like "4 point" TULIP at this point...
Christ made it possible for ANY to redceive the benefits of the Cross, but ONLY those in Christ actually receive it..." This has nothing to do with 2, 3 ,4 or 5 point TULIP, it has to do with "L" of the TULIP. But you are spot on with the observation that Christ made it possible for any to receive the benefits of the Cross, but only those God puts spiritually "in Christ" actually receive it...."
"The method of just HOW people receive the propiation is what seperates the 2 main theologies at this point...
Both agree need to be "In Christ" to actually receive benfits from the Cross, but diifer how method used to bring one into being "In Christ" All true!
Now, with the above as a basis for sharing a common understanding, lets look at two views, the Calvinist, limited atonement, and the Arminian unlimited atonement.
According to Calvinism, God chose foreseen individuals before creation for salvation, and then Christ died for just those previously chosen individuals. Thus limited atonement.
This is unbiblical on every level.
"Actually, think the Cal teaching is that because the Lord HAS chosen/elected out beforehand a peoples for His ggod pleasure, those he can show his grace upon.. Those individuals ARE in Christ, and that is WHY God foreknows them , since he caused them to be found :in Christ" Well certainly some Calvinists believe a person can be spiritually in Christ before they are spiritually created, but that is a minority view.
According to Arminianism, and this is the classic view, not the Barth based offshoot, God chose foreseen individuals before creation who God foresaw would freely come to faith. Logically then, Christ died for all men, providing the opportunity for anyone to freely come to faith, and when they do, they reveal themselves as one of the foreseen elect who freely come to faith. This view too misses the mark, in my opinion, but not by as much as Calvinism, in my opinion.
The Barth based offshoot says God chose the church, the body of Christ, before creation, corporately and when an individual believes, they automatically become part of that corporately elected group, but when they chose to no longer trust in Christ, they remove themselves from the "realm" of the elect and lose their salvation. This misses the mark too, because it violates all those verses that say we are predestined to adoption, and what God predestines, God causes to happen.
"Think that what can be said is that there ARE posting here on BB those of us who hold to "unlimited atonement", BUT in order to hold that, we also have to take the election by God, NOT due to simply foreknowledge, but due to Him electing on an individual basis..." Spot on!
"IF we take both Unlimited and free will response, than will have problem with either Universalism, or else God being forced to lower Himself down to accommodate man...." I do not see the problem with Universalism, but it certainly has a problem with being unbiblical. We do not elect ourselves by being willing to be saved. It does not depend on the man that wills....
